HL Deb 11 May 1994 vol 554 cc1557-8

Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:

What information they have concerning the Red Mercury report in the Channel Four "Dispatches" programme on 13th April and whether a small portable nuclear weapon capable of destroying Westminster has been made or is being developed.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Howe)

My Lords, to date, given the available evidence, we view the Red Mercury saga as a scam or hoax which is aimed at obtaining money from those wishing to obtain nuclear materials and developing their own nuclear weapons.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the programme on Channel Four was based upon a visit to Moscow by a British group which included such people as Professor Frank Barnaby, who is nobody's fool? They came back convinced that the development of a portable nuclear weapon of great brutality was, if not already developed, very much on the way to development. Under those circumstances, should not the Government seriously examine the matter before they come up with a conclusion which seems to me to be rather facile?

Earl Howe

My Lords, we take claims of this kind extremely seriously. We are always ready to consider any new information that arises. However, stories of Red Mercury have been running in the press since the late 1970s. Nothing that we have seen or heard since that time indicates any conclusion other than the one I gave in my Answer.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, is it not the case that President Yeltsin of Russia signed an authorisation to Mr. Sadykov, the alleged producer of the alleged material, Red Mercury, allowing him to export it? Is it not further the case that he has done a deal with an admittedly obscure United States company based in California for large quantities of the substance? Given the involvement of President Yeltsin, have the Government taken up the matter with the Russian Government?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I too saw that part of the programme to which the noble Lord, Lord Williams, refers. We understand that the Russian authorities are aware of the claims made for this material. However, we have no evidence whatever of Russian or former Soviet authorities being involved in either its manufacture or export. As we do not believe that Red Mercury is a substance with any unique or significant properties, the question of representations to the Russian authorities does not arise.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, I am sorry to come back to the noble Earl. My point was that if the president of Russia signed a document authorising this gentleman to export this material—whatever it may be —is not that a case for representations being made to the Russian Government?

Earl Howe

My Lords, the operative word in the noble Lord's question is "if". We have not seen the document in question. If a copy can be produced we shall study it. I have my doubts, in view of our conclusions on the nature of the substance, that the document contains the information the noble Lord says it does.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, as one who did not see the programme, can my noble friend enlighten me and the rest of the House as to what Red Mercury is alleged to be? Is it the name of a newspaper or a chemical substance? If it is a chemical substance, what is it made of?

Earl Howe

My Lords, the "Dispatches" programme alleged that a substance known as Red Mercury with unique and significant properties was developed some years ago in the former Soviet Union and that the technology was then developed to construct a miniature nuclear device incorporating the substance. Both claims we strongly believe to be completely untrue.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the Minister aware that whether or not the report is correct—there already seem to me to be good grounds for at least examining the situation a little more carefully than the Government have done—the development of a portable nuclear weapon is within sight? Is the Minister aware that a back-pack nuclear weapon was manufactured in the United States and put into service to the extent of training? In those circumstances, even if the noble Earl does not agree with nuclear disarmament, does he not agree that the nuclear weapon is not under effective international control? More effective international control should be introduced very quickly.

Earl Howe

My Lords, any possibility of nuclear proliferation is one that we must take extremely seriously. But this is not such an instance. With regard to the size of any purported nuclear device, the programme mentioned by the noble Lord suggested that a nuclear device the size of a teacup could be constructed. That is technically impossible. It would not even be possible to construct one as small as a shoebox. Much of the material in the programme should be looked at with a sceptical eye.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Putney, may have got the date wrong and that it should have read 1st April?

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