NHS Supplies Authority Appointments (Hansard, 11 May 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Baroness Cumberlege)
No, my Lords.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I appreciate the very lengthy Answer that the Minister has just given me. In her Answer on Monday to a similar question she indicated that there are a multiplicity of conditions to the regulations governing appointments to various bodies in the National Health Service. In order to avoid any confusion in future, would it not be better if one set of regulations was used for these appointments? That would prevent a repetition of what has happened. The people mentioned in my Question today hold three positions: one in their own right as their first appointments in National Health Service jobs; one as non-executive directors of the NHS Supplies Authority; and four of them are on the audit committee of the NHS Supplies Authority. Can the Minister tell the House whether they are enjoying the privilege of three salaries; and if not, how many salaries are they being paid?

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, in answer to the first part of the noble Lord's question, we see the NHS Supplies Authority as being different from a district health authority or a trust. We welcome cross-membership because those members on the NHS Supplies Authority have experience of the National Health Service. They represent the customers of the service on that authority in its attempt to keep down costs. On the second part of the question, members of the supplies authority, if they are already serving on another health authority, will receive two sets of remuneration, but they do not receive any additional remuneration for serving on the audit committee. That is part and parcel of the authority's work.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, does not the Minister feel that sometimes her right honourable friend the Secretary of State shows a form of tunnel vision in the wide range of appointments that she has at her disposal? Too often there are those who are linked to the government in power. Does she not recognise that this is a National Health Service and that there are people in many disciplines, in many parties and with many ranges of experience who should be drawn upon in filling posts within the NHS?

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, in making appointments my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health looks for the best people for the job regardless of where they come from and regardless of political affiliation.

§ Baroness Jay of Paddington
My Lords, I am glad that the Minister acknowledges that appointments to the NHS Supplies Authority are different from those to district health authorities and other authorities within the health service. But does she not agree that it is inappropriate that people, although they are there for cross-fertilisation, as she described it, of ideas and thinking, should receive two salaries from the NHS? It is, after all, only very recently that members of health authorities or of any NHS authority received any remuneration at all.

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, these are people of considerable calibre who are very busy. The work that they do on the supplies authority clearly takes up their time. We think it is appropriate that they should be recompensed for the time that they spend. Looking at the work of the authority, I have to say that it has been an outstanding success. Its operating costs have been reduced by £4.7 million since it started. They are now below 5 per cent. of expenditure. The organisation is now self-financing. Staff numbers have been reduced by almost 7 per cent. and the number of stockholding sites has been reduced from 47 to 26. It should not be National Health Service Supplies; it should be National Health Success for Supplies.

§ Baroness Jay of Paddington
My Lords, I am sorry to persist with this, but would it not be appropriate for the Minister's right honourable friend the Secretary of State to ask those people who serve on more than one authority and receive these double salaries whether they would be prepared to do this in a public service capacity?

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, I think I have answered that question very fully. If people are prepared to spend a lot of time and energy on the National Health Service we think it is right that they should receive some remuneration for doing so.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, the Minister mentioned savings of around 4 per cent. and a reduction in manpower of around 7 per cent. Is not the implication that low-paid workers have been thrown out of jobs and that presumably some of the savings made have been used to pay the salaries of people who, as has been pointed out, in previous times would have done the job for free as a matter of public service?

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, the issue here is whether one has an efficient organisation for supplies for the National Health Service or an inefficient one. The major role of the National Health Service is not that of an employment service. It is to provide health care for the population. We want to see it become more efficient and use taxpayers' money to much better effect.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, the Question on the Order Paper is not specifically about the performance of the National Health Service Supplies Authority. The Minister herself has chosen to introduce that body as a success story. However, she must be aware that the chairman of one of the biggest health trusts in the country, who is a supporter of the Government's party, has chaired a working party of the 1561 chairmen of the National Health Trust hospitals which is quite critical of the performance of the NHS Supplies Authority. They wish to do their own purchasing. If that is the case (and I know that it is) does that not indicate that there is not such a success story as the Minister claims?

§ Baroness Cumberlege
My Lords, it is a success story, although I know that there was one individual who was critical of the NHS Supplies Authority. He is a trust chairman and he has every right not to use the authority if that is his wish. However, for some aspects of their purchasing 99 per cent. of the trusts use the NHS Supplies Authority, which is a fact that speaks for itself.