Aeroflot: Safety Record (Hansard, 10 March 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, following the recent incident to Flight 242 en route to Moscow from London, we wrote to the Russian aeronautical authorities and to Aeroflot seeking an urgent report. Their reply is currently being analysed but we are satisfied that there was no danger to passengers at any time during the incident. A few minor failings in safety procedures have been identified and are being rectified by the Russian authorities.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Can he confirm that it is the policy of international civil aviation that when an airline has a really bad accident record it is refused access to a number of countries? Will he also confirm that unless Aeroflot improves its safety record, which has been deplorable in the past few years, such action will have to be taken?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, as my noble friend knows from his previous experience at the Department of Transport, where a serious failure (or ongoing failures) to meet International Civil Aviation Organisation standards is identified the Civil Aviation Authority has powers to detain aircraft. The United Kingdom can consider revoking or refusing to renew airline operating permits, effectively preventing the carrier from operating in the UK. With regard to Aeroflot, it has flown to and from the United Kingdom for many years. While there have been many complaints about the quality of its service, safety has not been a problem.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that very close scrutiny is currently being given 1531 by the Civil Aviation Authority to the safety record of Aeroflot, which was once the largest international airline in the world but is now terribly fragmented? If the CAA is dissatisfied with its investigations, will the Minister also confirm that Aeroflot could be precluded from flying into and out of the United Kingdom? Is he aware that the International Federation of Airline Pilots, and indeed a number of Aeroflot pilots themselves, have expressed deep concern about certain elements of safety affecting that fragmented airline?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, clearly incidents such as the one on Flight 242 from London to Moscow give us great concern. As I explained, if that concern were to increase in any serious degree we have the powers to revoke or refuse to renew the operating permit. Indeed, that would effectively prevent the airline from operating to and from the United Kingdom. With regard to Aeroflot more generally, it is certainly true that we have concerns about its safety record within the former Soviet Union itself. Evidence of underfunding in air traffic control, fuel shortages, poor maintenance of aircraft, and so on, is certainly there to be seen. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office advice to United Kingdom citizens is to avoid internal CIS flights if at all possible for those very reasons.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, is the Minister aware that as a corollary, in relation to flights into the former Soviet Union, its airports are plagued by chronic under-investment and a lack of modern tracking and radar equipment? What danger does that pose to our inbound flights to the former Soviet Union and to passengers on those flights?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, obviously it depends rather on the gateway airport in the former Soviet Union into which flights from London arrive. Our concern is less about those gateway flights, where the Soviet authorities have perhaps over the years taken steps to ensure decent air traffic control systems, than about other airports within the former Soviet Union, where international flights do not often venture but to which United Kingdom citizens can travel on domestic Aeroflot flights. As I said, we have advised United Kingdom citizens that they should attempt to avoid travelling on such internal flights if at all possible.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, now that we have much better relations with the modern Russian Government, especially since the Prime Minister's recent visit to Moscow, will the Minister consider tactfully and diplomatically offering the services of British experts, with a view to helping Aeroflot improve its ways?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, we try to give the former Soviet Union, and Aeroflot in particular, advice on safety procedures to improve both the quality and safety of flights. For example, some of the issues brought to our attention in the incident in question were that safety briefing cards were not available, that safety briefings were not given and that perhaps the crew were less than totally in command when the aircraft had to divert to Berlin due to the outer 1532 layer of the co-pilot's window becoming crazed. We have drawn to the attention of the former Soviet Union the question of briefing cards and so forth. We are assured that those matters will be attended to in the future and therefore the quality of the service— to which the Question really relates— will be much improved. I can assure your Lordships' House that we shall be watching the situation carefully.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, is that not an indication of the difficult economic circumstances which pertain in the former Soviet Union? Is it not an area where more direct assistance may be given? While in no way underestimating the dangers that may arise, is it not an area where economic and technical aid may be beneficial in improving relations with the former Soviet Union and improving the situation there?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, it is. The CAA and various aviation authorities in the United Kingdom are always keen to develop business abroad. I am sure that if we could see our way to help Aeroflot, both by aid and perhaps more importantly by expertise, in running its civil aviation services we would be very willing to do so.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, given the calamitous list of shortcomings which my noble friend read out, is it not surprising that it was the window and not the pilot of the plane which diverted to Berlin that became crazed? Would a useful way of advancing our knowledge of what is going on in that airline, so that the CAA is in a position to make rational judgments in regard to opening our airports to it, be to use the know-how fund as a means of placing British instructors in Aeroflot offices who would then be able to report back to Her Majesty's Government?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, as I said earlier to your Lordships, Aeroflot has flown out of and into the UK for some years. Complaints in regard to the safety of its flights have not been common. There is no doubt that in this case a serious, though not unusual, problem arose— windows on aircraft do sometimes craze. The Aeroflot procedures told the pilot that he should divert to Berlin, which he did. Unfortunately, as the report in the newspapers at the time indicated, there did not appear to be the kind of communication between aeroplane staff, the cabin crew, the pilot and the passengers that we would expect on a normal airline. We have questions about the handling by the cabin crew of the incident and the amount of information they gave to passengers, as well as the way in which the passengers were almost left high and dry in Berlin, pretty well oblivious as to why they came to be there and what was going to be done to move them on.