Disabled People: Work Quota Scheme (Hansard, 21 June 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Henley)
My Lords, we recognise that the quota scheme may not be the most effective instrument for improving the work position of disabled people. That is why we have announced that we wish to consult on proposals to prevent unjustifiable discrimination against disabled people in the field of employment.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. While the quota system is better than nothing, how can a 3 per cent. quota be enforced, as intended in the 1944 Act, when less than 2 per cent. of the working population are registered for the purposes of the scheme?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to one of the major deficiencies of the quota scheme—the fact that, although there are sufficient numbers of registered and registrable disabled people to qualify for the quota, those who are registered certainly do not come up to the 3 per cent. I do not believe that reducing the quota would necessarily solve the problem. Certainly it would make life easier for employers, but it would not help disabled people to get back into work.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the Minister prepared to consider representations on this issue from organisa-tions representing ex-servicemen and women and, in particular, the Royal British Legion?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord knows full well that we have announced that we shall go out to consultation on proposals to prevent unjustifiable discrimination against disabled people. Certainly the Government and I have considerable respect for the views of the Royal British Legion and we shall certainly take note of any views that it puts to us.

§ Lord Milverton
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, rather than a quota system or something better than a quota system, the best way in which to help disabled people is to ensure that those who are able, as we see it —although every one of us in a sense has some disability—have an appreciation of the difficulties of disabled people so that disabled and able-bodied people can feel at ease with one another? Surely that is the best way in which to help one another, rather than having a quota system or anything like it.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the best possible assistance which disabled people can receive is for an employer to take a positive attitude towards looking at the abilities of an individual rather than his disabilities. My noble friend is right to draw attention to weaknesses of the 172 quota scheme in that area. That is why we have given a commitment to consult on proposals to prevent unjustifiable discrimination.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that, while the employment of disabled people is important, they must be trained first? I am sure that the noble Lord is aware of the changes that the Government have made to the funding of the four residential colleges for the training of the disabled, which has put their future in doubt. Is the noble Lord aware that the visit that he has promised to pay to one of those colleges in the near future will be greatly welcomed? After that visit we hope that the Government will revert to their previous method of funding those colleges.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that those colleges perform an extremely valuable role. I am very much looking forward to visiting the college to which the noble Lord referred. That visit is to take place either next month or later this month; I cannot remember the exact date. Obviously we shall keep under review all our proposals for the funding and training of disabled people in whatever is the most appropriate manner.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the problems of the quota system is that disabled people are often very reluctant to identify themselves as disabled and for that reason do not register? Will he bear that in mind in any future proposals that the Government may have, particularly if we are thinking, as I hope we are, in terms of comprehensive legislation dealing with discrimination against the disabled?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to draw attention to another weakness of the quota system. Obviously it is a matter for an individual as to whether or not he registers. It is a personal decision. Many disabled people do not wish to be part of a scheme which means that they are getting a job because they are disabled. They wish to get a job on their own merits rather than through a quota system. That is one aspect at which we shall look in the review and consultation process which was announced some weeks ago.

§ Lord Ewing of Kirkford
My Lords, is the Minister aware that for many years it was the practice of government, whichever party was in power, to pay the cost of any special equipment required by a company in order to employ disabled people? Is it true that the Government have now stopped those grants and that employers are expected to pay for any special equipment required? If that is true, is the Minister aware that a number of employers are now insisting that the disabled should pay for that specialised equipment before they can obtain the employment? What help is that for disabled people seeking employment?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, that is not true. We have improved and relaunched all the various schemes providing assistance to employers under a new scheme called Access to Work which has been welcomed generally by all in the disabled field and by employers. 173 For the first year, under that scheme we shall pay the full costs and we shall not be asking for a contribution from employers.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, on the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Ewing, is my noble friend aware that fortunately the Government changed their mind so that the situation is no longer as was stated by the noble Lord and we are back where we were, which is satisfactory? Will the Government continue to study urgently ways in which to improve the quota scheme, taking into account the contributions made from all sides of this House in a debate which I initiated on 13th April?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to the fact that we listened to representations on Access to Work and therefore were able to bring it forward in a form which I believe everybody has welcomed.
As regards the second point made by my noble friend relating to the quota scheme, we shall keep the position under review, but I must stress that most people recognise that the quota system has considerable weaknesses.

§ Lord Ewing of Kirkford
My Lords, I apologise to your Lordships for returning to this matter. The Minister was kind enough to say that for the first year the Government will meet the costs. What will happen after the first year? A year is a very short period of time in the life of a disabled person.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, representations were made by the All-Party Group on Disability when we originally proposed an employer contribution. The All-Party Group on Disability suggested that we could at least try it for one year without an employer contribution. We have given a commitment so to do and the scheme came in on 6th June without an employer contribution. However, we announced that, at the end of the year, we would review how the scheme was progressing to see whether it was possible to leave more money in by means of asking for a contribution from employers. I can certainly give an assurance that we shall make no changes until after the review has been completed. Certainly, there will be no employer contribution for the first year, plus however long it takes to conduct that review.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, can the Minister tell us to what extent government departments are complying with the quota requirements? The time was when they were certainly not so doing.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, it is impossible to do so!

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I do not have the exact figures in front of me. However, I can assure the noble Baroness that my own department—that is, the Department of Employment—is in fact complying with the quota. Because of the numbers of registered disabled people, I am afraid that it is impossible for all organisations, whether they be public or private, to 174 comply with the quota. However, I can give an assurance that of the order of 20 per cent. of all firms subject to quota in fact meet it.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, I should like to question the Minister a little further on the scheme that he mentioned whereby the Government meet the costs for the first year. Can the Minister say whether those costs include the capital costs incurred as a result of adaptations to meet the needs of disabled people? Further, does it mean that local authorities are reimbursed for those first-year costs? If so, is the reimbursement to local authorities employing disabled people within their standard spending assessments or in addition to them?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, all employers, be they in the private or public sector, local authorities or whatever, can apply for help from Access to Work both as regards capital requirements and running costs. But in both cases that applies up to a certain limit over a. period of five years.