COMMONS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 18 July 1994)

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 6. I should like to speak also to Amendments Nos. 16, 23, 29, 31, 32, 81, 84, 85, 115 to 117, 119 to 122, 124 and 125.
These amendments deal with service overseas by British police officers. Their principal effect is to permit UK police officers to serve abroad, not only with foreign governments (which is already possible under existing legislation), but also with international organisations such as the United Nations. The new provisions will allow us to accede, for example, to a recent request from the United Nations to provide a number of British police officers to serve with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia.
Amendments Nos. 6 and 16 relate to England and Wales, and Amendments Nos. 23 and 29 apply the same provisions in Scotland. Under the present law—the Police (Overseas Service) Act 1945 and the Overseas Development and Cooperation Act 1980—British police officers may serve abroad with the approval of the 22 Secretary of State and their existing police authority, at the request of a foreign government, but not at the request of international organisations. The relevant legislation makes provision for the terms of service, discipline and pensions of those who are seconded abroad. Such attachments may be to assist with the investigation of specific crimes occurring within the jurisdiction of the foreign government, or more generally to advise on policing matters, or even (as recently in South Africa) in connection with the observance of civil rights at times of elections.
Because of the high regard in which the British police service is held around the world, requests are sometimes made for police officers to serve abroad, not with foreign governments but with international organisations such as the United Nations. I am sure your Lordships will agree that it is in the interests of the reputation of the British police service, and this country's relations with foreign governments and international organisations, that British police officers should be available for such purposes. But the present law gives no powers for attachments to international organisations, with the result that, even if in other respects informal arrangements could be made, there would be no basis for paying the officer's pension if he were killed or injured during his period of overseas service, and there could also be problems over any disciplinary matters or his pension position on his return to the UK if his absence abroad amounted to a break in service.
I hope that your Lordships will agree that it is very much in the interest of the police service, and in the interests of this country's reputation among the international community, that that deficiency should be remedied.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, the noble Earl referred to "foreign governments". Our help is requested by Commonwealth countries. Do they come under different legislation or are they referred to in this case as "foreign governments"?

§ Lord Harris of Greenwich
My Lords, the noble Earl was good enough to write to me in regard to these amendments, which are clearly right. It is highly desirable that British police officers should be able to provide service to international organisations. The only point of detail about which I should like to ask is this. He referred to the various amendments to which he spoke and the position in England, Wales and Scotland. Can I take it that the Royal Ulster Constabulary is included in the provision? If not, why not?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, I can say that the expression "foreign governments" refers mainly to governments of countries outside the United Kingdom where, at the moment, we are able to send policemen at the request of a foreign government provided it has the approval of the Secretary of State and the police authority. Therefore the expression refers to governments outside the United Kingdom. Commonwealth Governments have their 23 secondments made under existing law. The amendment refers to organisations such as the United Nations or any other such international organisation.
With regard to the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the amendments deal with secondment "to" the Royal Ulster Constabulary but not secondment of Royal Ulster Constabulary officers abroad.

§ Lord Harris of Greenwich
My Lords, can the noble Earl say why not? If it is desirable that police officers from other parts of the United Kingdom should provide the service, why is the RUC excluded? It has a powerful reputation and in some areas a high level of expertise. I find it odd that it is excluded.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, makes a good point. I do not know the answer at the moment, but I shall certainly look into the reasons. It may be that the Royal Ulster Constabulary is already tied up with its present duties.
Curiously, I have had a blinding flash of memory—these things happen from time to time. The Police Act of 1964 does not extend to Northern Ireland. This Bill is amending the 1964 Act. That is the technical answer, but I shall look into the substantive point.