Air Pollution by Motor Vehicles (Hansard, 6 July 1994)

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, despite last weekend's pollution episode, pollution from road vehicles is falling as a result of tighter controls on both vehicle emissions and fuel quality. There will continue to be a sustained decline in emissions of pollutants into the early part of the next decade.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Is he aware that, although pollution is said to be falling, it is still very serious and the number of motor vehicles is ever increasing? Can my noble friend say how soon petrol will be lead free and how long will diesel fuels, which cause the worst pollution, have the tax advantage which they do now?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the replacement cycle for motor vehicles is between 10 years and 15 years and close to 60 per cent. of the cars on the roads today will run on lead-free petrol. However, there will always be a residual need for leaded petrol, for example, for classic car owners. As to the second part of my noble friend's question, matters of taxation are for my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the: Exchequer.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that there are very many premature deaths and illnesses caused by the amount of pollution that we have to put up with today? Would it not be wise for the Government to consider talking to specialists, particularly in the medical profession, who have some thoughts and ideas as to what might be done to combat what is now becoming a very serious issue? I hope that the Government will attempt to talk to people who are concerned about this matter and listen to their ideas, which would need legislation to put into practice in order to reduce pollution and the number of premature deaths.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I draw your Lordships' attention to a discussion paper on air quality standards and management which was published jointly by my right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for Transport and for the Environment. It is entitled Improving Air Quality. It was issued in March and the consultation period closed at the end of June. We shall be studying the recommendations most carefully.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, will the noble Viscount indicate whether the Government are considering random kerbside car emission tests as another way of trying to control this problem?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I cannot answer the noble Lord's question on that point. However, I can tell him that there is substantial kerbside testing of lorries and buses.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, has my noble friend noted a recent survey by the RAC which suggests that only 10 per cent. of road vehicles in this country are causing a very large proportion of the air pollution from motor vehicles? Are the Government considering any way of dealing with that 10 per cent., which are old vehicles and badly maintained? Will the Government consider how they might be brought up to standard?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lord, we are aware that, based on the results from the Stedman remote sensing gas analyser, Dr. Jeremy Vanke of the RAC has claimed that 10 per cent. of cars produce 50 per cent. of pollution. There are problems with this device which we hope can be overcome. At the moment it is too inaccurate to become part of the legal process. I can assure my noble friend that further measures are; being introduced to give stricter emission limits for diesel vehicles and buses. They will add to those which have come into force since 1993. More cuts will be in place from October 1996.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I hope that the Government are not being complacent about this 1275 matter. Is the Minister aware that the estimated death rate from traffic fumes is now 10,500 a year, which is 35 times as many as it is alleged die from the effects of environmental tobacco smoke? Will he take further measures and consider whether the increased use of biofuels might assist the problem? If it is found that they would assist, will the Government do something to reduce the taxes on such fuels to encourage their use?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that the Government will continue to seek ways in which pollution from motor cars and buses and other motor vehicles can be reduced. The Government are aware of the environmental benefits, for example, of natural gas as a vehicle fuel. In the short term that may have more potential than, say, electric cars and would be particularly applicable to short-range urban public service vehicles.

§ Lord Dixon-Smith
My Lords, will my noble friend accept the contention that, in discussing the problems caused by the combustion of petrol and oil, we are but discussing the symptoms of an even deeper problem? The real problem is burgeoning humanity with its insatiable appetites. They are the ultimate polluters.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, we have recently issued guidance to planning authorities (Document PPG13) on reducing the reliance on motorised transport. That puts forward proposals to reduce the reliance on cars, etc.

§ Lord Redesdale
My Lords, the Minister has stated that a few vehicles produce the most pollution. Will he not consider a scheme by which the public can report by telephone the details of offending vehicles?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I am pleased to report that we have such a scheme already in process. It has been in place for about two years. There is a document called Reporting Smoky Diesels which includes telephone numbers in various parts of the country where such offences can be reported.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, everybody is aware of the importance of catalytic converters. But is the noble Viscount aware of the appalling smell emitted by these devices, which is worse than the pollution? There is the smell of rotten eggs. Will the Government encourage the motor manufacturers to try to produce a device which does not do that?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I am aware of this particular smell. I am not an expert in this sector, but I believe that it does disappear over a period and that it is particularly strong in new vehicles. As the catalyst burns itself in, the smell gets weaker.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, are the Government aware that one of the most significant actions which can be taken to reduce pollution is to encourage people to travel by rail rather than by motor car? What steps are the Government taking to replace the senior management of Railtrack to ensure that our railways run seven days a week instead of six days a week?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, my noble friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport has already entered into a debate on these matters. I refer the noble Lord to the previous Question.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, does the noble Viscount recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Renton, has raised an extremely important matter? It is not frivolous; it is a very important matter. Does the noble Viscount further recognise that levels of nitrogen dioxide are getting worse? Concentrations in London, for instance, increased by 17 per cent. in the past year alone. Does the noble Viscount further recognise that we have an asthma crisis in this country? As was revealed in a Written Question in another place, the incidence of asthma in this country has increased by an average of almost 150 per cent. in the past 10 years. That is a serious problem, which is caused by emissions from motor vehicles. Finally, will the noble Viscount take on board the important point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, that the RAC, which is a respectable body, fingered 10 per cent. of vehicles as being the cause of the major part of pollution? It is perfectly easy under the equivalent of the Clean Air Acts to eliminate that 10 per cent. when necessary. I hope that the noble Viscount will take that on board.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I take on board all the points that have been raised by the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel. The Committee on Medical Effects of Air Pollution and the Advisory Group on the Medical Aspects of Air Pollution Episodes are looking, for the Department of Health, at evidence of the effects of air pollution as it pertains particularly to asthma and other complaints. The results will be published later this year. Obviously, we cannot pre-empt that work, but we shall consider what further action might be needed in the light of those reports. As to the noble Lord's reference to the question from my noble friend Lord Campbell of Croy on the RAC's claim, as I said, we are investigating the matter and the instrument by which the measurements were obtained. If it has any great value, we shall, of course, make use of it.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, bearing in mind the certainty that the number of cars will continue to increase and the well-established fact that people's health will continue to suffer from atmospheric pollution caused in such ways, particularly the health of young people, whose nostrils are nearer to the ground and of old people, who are more vulnerable, will the Government consider giving encouragement to the use of alternative sources of fuel, such as natural gas, which has been mentioned?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the Government are deeply concerned about the levels of pollution and their effects on all people, both old and young. We shall continue to pursue policies to reduce such pollution.