HL Deb 19 January 1994 vol 551 cc603-5

2.47 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they have prepared a programme of proposals to put before the European Council during the Greek presidency; and whether, in conformity with "open government", they will publish it.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)

My Lords, there is no UK programme as such for the Greek presidency. The Greek presidency programme has been placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Our priorities are the completion of the enlargement negotiations, following up the Commission report on subsidiarity and further work on growth, competitiveness and employment.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply. Will she inform the House whether the question of public access to information concerning Council meetings will be brought up during the Greek presidency at the European Council, as distinct from the Council of Ministers established under Article 145? Is she aware that at the Council of Ministers' meeting on 6th December last year, a series of regulations were passed concerning public access to Community decisions? That virtually guaranteed in the text that very little information would be given to anyone anyway.

Since it is desirable that the papers should at some time cross the desk of the Prime Minister, will the noble Baroness ensure that those documents which were forwarded to the Foreign Office by COREPER on 3rd December and 12th January are laid before the Prime Minister so that he may consider the desirability of raising this important matter at the next meeting of the European Council?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I understand the anxiety of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce; and there should be public access—something for which the British Government have argued—to documents which have been seen by the Prime Minister. It was of course under the Belgian presidency that the meeting of the European Council was held on 6th December. While I do not have the detail of the documents which, no doubt, the noble Lord has in his hand, I know that the Prime Minister is deeply anxious to see proper public access. I shall bring the noble Lord's remarks to his attention.

The point is that we cannot have a programme for the Greek presidency; but we can and will follow up our priorities during the Greek presidency, not only at the European Council but also at the Council of Ministers' meetings in the interim.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I have already been through the proceedings of the European Council's activities in Brussels, and there is nowhere in the document any mention of this question even being considered? Will she please ensure, in association with the matters that I have ventured to lay before her today, that copies are made available of the procedures adopted by the Council—which I was able to get after winkling them out for about four months, and which have been amended, essentially by the documents to which I have referred?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I understand the noble Lord's point. I shall certainly look into all that he has said today.

Lord Monson

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that during the debate over the Maastricht Treaty, her right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said that if and when the treaty was ratified, subsidiarity would become the guiding principle of the Community? Does she further agree that there has not been much evidence of that so far, despite the ratification of the treaty? Can she say when we can expect to see a massive and determined effort to implement the principle of subsidiarity?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I believe the noble Lord was not able to be with us at Question Time yesterday. It is important that 16 out of the 24 of those issues on subsidiarity on the Anglo-French list were agreed to at the last Council. One directive has already been amended; namely, that on fisheries, and a number of other issues will come before successive Councils. As the noble Lord will see from Hansard, we do not intend to let this all-important issue go.

Lord Richard

My Lords, as I understood the questions asked by my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington, it was not only that the general public should be better informed as to what went on at European Councils, but that the Government should be adequately and properly informed as to what these terrible institutions in Brussels were getting up to. Is the noble Baroness satisfied with the flow of information coming from the Government's representative on CUR EPER as to what the Community is considering and the documentation to back up that consideration? Or does she take the same view as some other people do, which is that perhaps our ambassador to the Community does not do his job properly?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, let me straight away refute the allegation just made by the noble Lord, Lord Richard—

Lord Richard

I have not made an allegation.

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, that is the implication of the noble Lord's remarks. Sir John Kerr is one of the best of Her Majesty's permanent representatives, and is absolutely diligent. I have no doubt that all documents, other than those on very trifling matters, do come to Ministers and do come to the Prime Minister. But I accept that there is worry that documents circulate within the Commission which do not always come to the Council. I know that is the anxiety of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington; and he knows that I share it with him.

Lord Richard

My Lords, can I be perfectly clear about this? I am not saying a word against John Kerr. He is an excellent civil servant, and so far as I know he does a very good job. If any such implication could be drawn from my remarks, then I unreservedly withdraw it.