EC Budget (Hansard, 9 February 1994)

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the outturn figures for the 1990 European Community budget are 45,808 million ecus in commitments and 43,324 million ecus in payments; the 1993 amended budget totalled 70,408 million ecus in commitments and 66,858 million ecus in payments.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is that not an astonishing increase, amounting to about 20 per cent. compound increase every year, bearing in mind that our own Government are putting restrictions on public spending? Is it not a fact that most of that expenditure is on the common agricultural policy, which goes on growing and growing like Topsy, in spite of the fact that the Government have promised from time to time to prevent additional spending? Is he further aware that every British family is now paying £28 per week more than they need because of the common agricultural policy? When will the Government press the EC to stop this awful squander mania by the institutions of that organisation?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I accept that expenditure is high, and I accept in particular that expenditure on the CAP is high. It is by far the biggest component of EC expenditure. It is though constrained by the agricultural guideline—a legally binding ceiling negotiated by my noble friend Lady Thatcher. Further, it is fair to say that all of us agree—well, the noble Lord probably does not agree—that we gain considerable benefits from our membership of the Community. Having said that, it is important that we pay our fair share. That is why my noble friend Lady Thatcher negotiated the abatement. That abatement cannot be changed or cancelled without our agreement. That is why we continue to be at the forefront of the fight against fraud in the Community —I do not think that I can repeat that yet again —despite the fact that the noble Lord accuses us of complacency. That is why at the Edinburgh Summit we negotiated a freeze in our own resources ceiling of 1.2 per cent. of GNP to 1994, rising to 1.27 per cent. in 1999, which is less than half of what the Commission proposed.

§ Lord Tebbit
My Lords, would it be fair to say that the policy of Her Majesty's Government appears to be to hold down spending at home but to allow substantial increases in spending of British taxpayers' money through Brussels? Does that not lead to the premise that Her Majesty's Government have concluded that the Commissioners in Brussels obtain better value for taxpayers' money than we do out of our own Government in this country?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, with the greatest respect to my noble friend, I do not think that he listened to my answer to the first supplementary question. I stressed that at Edinburgh we negotiated a ceiling on our own resources of 1.2 per cent., rising to 1.27 per cent., which was less than half of what the Commission originally proposed.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in the four-year span covered by the period referred to in the Question on the Order Paper a sum of no less than £7 billion net after all receipts was transferred to the European Community out of the Consolidated Fund? Is he further aware that, as freely acknowledged, a good deal of the expenditure was fraudulent and irregular? If the Government are misguided enough to believe that they can get the Bill through Parliament which provides for increased expenditure under the new own-resources decision made at Edinburgh, there will be a further burden per annum on the British taxpayer, net again, of some £200 million a year. What does the noble Lord propose to do about that?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I propose to continue appearing at the Dispatch Box answering Questions that noble Lords will continue to put down. I do not think that I can repeat this enough. This country has been very much at the forefront of the fight against fraud. We accept that there has been fraud. However, we shall continue to fight against fraud. We consider that there are considerable benefits to be gained from the money that we have expended on membership of the Community. I acknowledge that the noble Lord does not 1570 accept that. However, I believe that virtually everyone else agrees that it would be unthinkable that we should withdraw from the Community. As I have said, there have been and are now considerable benefits from staying in.

§ Lord Carr of Hadley
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the great majority of British businesses, large and small, believe that they would be much worse off if we were not in the Common Market? They believe that they would make lower profits and employ fewer people. Might that not put the British taxpayer under even greater strain?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my noble friend makes a perfectly valid point. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, listens to it. Obviously the well-being of British industry and the jobs dependent on it are not of concern to the noble Lord.

§ Lord Eatwell
My Lords, in their attempts to curb the growth of the Community budget, will the Government adopt the proposal advanced yesterday evening by the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, in his customarily modest way, to campaign at the European elections for the abolition of the common agricultural policy?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I shall not speculate as to what will or will not be in our manifesto for the European elections.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, the Minister said that we obtain a great deal of benefit from the EC. I challenge him to mention one benefit that we could not receive if we were outside the EC. With regard to his noble friend's question, is the Minister aware that our overall deficit of £100,000 million in trade with the EC since we joined represents a loss rather than a gain in jobs?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, over 60 per cent. of our trade is with the EC. We now receive something of the order of 40 per cent. of Japanese and 40 per cent. of American inward investment into the EC. All the inward investment which we have received over the years comes about largely because we are members of the EC. It would not have materialised without that. Further, the single market will bring further considerable and untold opportunities to British business and enterprise throughout the Community.