HL Deb 15 December 1994 vol 559 cc1366-8

3.26 p.m.

Lord Clinton-Davis asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they consider that their proposals to enhance ferry safety, complemented by the decisions made by the Council of Transport Ministers on 22nd November 1994, are sufficient.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we place a very high priority on ferry safety. We welcome, therefore, the resolution of the Council of Transport Ministers on 22nd November, and the decision of the Secretary General of the International Maritime Organisation to set up a review of ferry safety. We shall take account of the results of that work, of the findings of the official inquiry into the loss of the "Estonia", and of our on-going programmes of research and inspections, in deciding what further measures may be needed to ensure that ferries serving our ports continue to meet sufficiently high standards.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he be instructing his officials at the IMO to urge that seafarers' representatives be included on the panel of experts which is to be set up by the IMO, and that the terms of reference include investigation into excessive hours which masters and officers are forced frequently to work at the expense of safety?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we have always made it our policy to consult fully the unions and other bodies representing seafarers. We have also made it our policy to take fully into account the human elements which the noble Lord highlighted involved in any possible tragedy.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, I was not asking directly about the Government's policy but whether at its first meeting they were going to urge the IMO that seafarers' representatives be included on the panel of experts and that the terms of reference include those questions affecting safety to which I referred.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, those questions are important, and I have no doubt that any panel of experts will consider them. The UK is represented on the IMO panel of experts by the Marine Safety Agency. Again, in developing our policies it has always been our policy to consult fully unions representing mariners.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, the Minister attaches a high priority to various things. That is one of the platitudes that comes from the Civil Service the whole time. The Question asked whether the Government considered the proposals to be sufficient. The Minister did not answer that part of the Question asked by my noble friend.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the noble Lord would be upset if I said that we did not attach a high priority to safety matters. Of course we do. Of course we can never be complacent, and say that everything is sufficient. That is why we are taking forward research and working with the IMO to develop further research into this important matter.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, the Minister must be aware of the four recent tragedies at sea, all involving a heavy loss of life. They include the tragedy of the Swedish ferry with its very high loss of life. Will the Minister cast his mind back to the loss of the "Herald of Free Enterprise", which was the last tragedy to engulf us?

The committee which reviewed the case on behalf of the Government made a list of recommendations. Their implementation would provide maximum safety to people travelling on British ferries. Initially there was hesitation about the recommendations. Have the Government now implemented those recommendations and has the work been completed?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we accepted all the recommendations of the "Herald of Free Enterprise" inquiry.

Lord Carver

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the introduction of formal safety assessment as the principle for the regulation of ships' safety would enhance the safety not only of ferries but of all merchant shipping?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, there is a strong case for taking fully into account the considerations which the noble and gallant Lord mentions.

Earl Russell

My Lords, does the Minister agree that at today's Question Time this is the third subject in respect of which safety may be incompatible with efficiency?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we need transport by sea in order to provide a service that is required by our industry and passengers generally. However, the Government's top priority is to ensure that that service can exist with the best possible safety standards.

Lord Greenway

My Lords, bearing in mind the unilateral action taken by our Government following the "Herald of Free Enterprise" disaster and the action that is expected from the Scandinavian countries following the recent "Estonia" tragedy, does the Minister agree that whatever comes out of this—be it measures to improve safety by fitting sponsons or transverse bulkheads—none will be much use without the maintenance of the highest possible crewing and operational standards, which we in this country are very good at?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I fully agree with the noble Lord.