HL Deb 28 October 1993 vol 549 cc932-4

3.15 p.m.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon asked Her Majesty' s Government:

Whether discussions have been undertaken by officials at the Department of Transpoi1 with persons potentially prejudiced by the proposal to widen the M.25 between Junctions 12 and 15 and, if so, how many such persons have been approached.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, when the proposals for link roads between Junctions 12 and 15 of the M.25 were published for public consultation on June 1992, the Department of Transport wrote to all those whose homes would be directly affected by the scheme and offered to meet them to explain the situation and procedure. Twenty-two such visits were undertaken. Since then, the Department of Transport has received a number of requests to purchase homes under the statutory and discretionary blight provisions. Some of these requests have been accepted, some have been refused and others are being considered. On request, some meetings have also taken place with commercial interests affected by the scheme.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that some of us believe that it is highly improper to approach property owners in advance of the result of any public inquiry that is being undertaken; and that it appears to many people that the whole inquiry procedure is a farce, and that the Government will have their own way whatever else happens? Will he give the assurance that in no way are householders being intimidated, nor indeed are the objectors to the scheme, by the activities of his department? Finally, on a broader note, does the Minister agree with my suggestion, bearing in mind the cuts that are now being demanded in public expenditure for essential work and essential services, that the dropping of this scheme could be a contribution by his department to reducing the disgraceful deficit of £50 billion in the Government's accounts?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, although the noble Lord feels strongly on this subject, and particularly with regard to his first supplementary question, I can tell him that the department has a statutory duty under the town and country planning Act of 1980 to consider applications from owner-occupiers to purchase residential property which would be physically affected by road proposals. I remember when I was a surveyor. If there was a road proposal, it was my duty to act in the best interests of my client. That would be to discuss matters with the Department of Transport. If I acted for the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, and I did not act in the way that I should, then the noble Lord would be very cross.

Lord Marlesford

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, far from being determined, as the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, suggested, to get their own way regardless of the results of the public inquiry, the Government are to be congratulated on having withdrawn, in the face of public protest, their proposals for link roads between the M.1 and the M.62 and the M.56 and the M.62. In view of the fact that over 10,000 letters have been received by his department opposing the link road proposals for the M.25 and only eight letters in favour, can we hope that the Government will be similarly sensitive to such public pressure?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it is without question that we have a major problem on the M.25 between Junction 12 and Junction 15. It is a real bottleneck; it causes a great deal of aggravation to local people; and it causes a great deal of added cost to industry. Of course we understand the difficulties that our proposal has caused for many people and the fears to which it has given rise. The present position is that my right honourable friend expects to publish the draft statutory orders for the scheme later this year, and there will he a public inquiry next year.

Viscount Cross

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the preliminaries to road construction in this country can take, and in the past have taken, as long as 12 years? In those circumstances, is he not absolutely right to try to reduce those delays as much as possible? Further, does he agree that while the economy of this country will not come to a complete standstill, it could well be seriously damaged if the road improvements that he has proposed to that vital arterial road are not carried out as soon as possible?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, my noble friend is right. There is an astonishingly long delay before one can get a road built. But it is quite right that we should go through the formal and statutory procedures. With regard to the part of the M.25 which is the subject of this Question, there has been a consultation programme and my right honourable friend is considering the results before publishing the draft statutory orders.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, can the Minister explain why, when pressed by no fewer than five noble Lords the last time that this matter was discussed, he was unable to answer the question about consultations concerning compensation? Would he also indicate whether, in the approaches made by his departmental officials, it is pointed out to the consultees, who might potentially be prejudiced by reason of the proposal, that their position is in no way to be regarded as being prejudiced by entering into the discussions, that the discussions themselves in no way obviate the need for a public inquiry and that the Government are not seeking to pre-empt the position in any way whatsoever?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, in reply to the noble Lord's last point, it is an approach being made from the person affected to the department and not from the department to the person that will be affected. I can reassure him on the points about which he was concerned.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, acting as a surveyor as well as a government Minister, can the noble Earl give the assurance to all those property owners who have been and will be approached that in any purchases that his department might make they will be protected from negative equity?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am sorry to disappoint the noble Lord. I cannot act as a surveyor as well as a Government Minister.