§ 3.7 p.m.
§ Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ On which dates was the European Community's preliminary draft budget for 1994 (vols. 0 and 1–6 inclusive), or such of its contents as were communicated to them by the United Kingdom Permanent Representative to the Community prior to its publication, reviewed by (a) the Treasury and (b) the Cabinet Sub-Committee on European Questions (OPD(E)) prior to the Economic and Financial Council's establishment of the Community's draft budget on 22nd July 1993, and with what results.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the Government considered the preliminary draft budget of the European Communities for 1994 in the weeks leading up to 15th July, when my right honourable friend the Paymaster General submitted an explanatory memorandum to Parliament. The explanatory memorandum sets out the Government's broad objectives, which were secured at the Budget Council on 22nd July.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for his reply. Since some £2½ billion net comes out of the British taxpayers' pocket in regard to the expenditure of the European Community, does not the Minister think it a little unfortunate that the budget is not submitted to Parliament in time for Parliament to have any influence upon it?
Is the noble Earl further aware that the preliminary draft budget was submitted to the European Parliament on 25th May? Two months later, in the week ending 930 27th July, it was made available to the British Parliament for scrutiny. By that time, on 22nd July, the Economic and Financial Council had already established the draft budget and the preliminary draft therefore became of no significance. Is the Minister further aware that, although the draft budget was established on 22nd July, it took until 27th September for it to come up in the British Parliament? Will the noble Earl give the House an assurance that in future Parliament will be provided with the necessary documents at the same time as the European Parliament?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the management of business in either House of Parliament must be for the business managers. But I will certainly pass on what the noble Lord has said in that regard. I know that he would agree with me that the timetable this year has not been any different to what it normally is.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, will the Minister take full cognisance of what my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington said, bearing in mind that the points raised by my noble friend have great effect not only on the Government but on all the British people whom the Government allege they represent?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I certainly take very careful note of whatever the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, says on this matter. He is perhaps the most well versed of all your Lordships in this sphere.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, I hope that the noble Earl will take this matter very seriously, bearing in mind that it is the House of Commons, not the European Parliament, which is responsible for raising the taxation which is paid over to the institutions of Europe. Is he aware that there is growing concern about the budget—about where the money is going to—and in particular that the European budget now finances, in the case of Greece for example, no less than 12 per cent. of the total gross domestic product? That is very much a matter for this Parliament, which raises the money to do just that.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we do take this matter very seriously, and that the view of the United Kingdom was supported by the Council, in that the Community budget should be subjected to the same rigour as national spending. As I am sure the noble Lord will be aware, when the draft budget was established it was significantly below the estimates proposed by the Commission.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I hope that I shall not shock my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington if I say that the Government ought to recognise that he is entirely right on this matter. Will the Minister think again about the Answer that he gave about "the usual channels"? It is formally correct that business in both Houses is a matter for the usual channels; but is it not the case here that it is the supply 931 of necessary documentation from government which makes possible a proper parliamentary scrutiny, and that appears not to have taken place?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, is as concerned as I am that there is harmony between him and his Front Bench on this particular subject. It is most unusual. No, my Lords. The matter of organising the business of the House is entirely for the business managers.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Answer that he gave me is unfortunately not entirely correct? Is he aware that under the declarations of the Maastricht Treaty which, as the noble Earl will recall, the Government supported, the responsibility is quite clearly that:
the governments of the Member States"—that includes the noble Earl and his friends—will ensure,"—noble Lords will note "the governments" will ensure—inter alia, that national parliaments receive Commission proposals for legislation in good time for information or possible examination"?Does the noble Earl agree that the responsibility under the declaration of Maastricht, which the noble Earl's government passed, is not that of the usual channels; that it lies upon the Government? Does he further agree that the Government attached so little importance to the establishment of the draft budget on 22nd July last that they sent their most junior Treasury Minister, Sir John Cope—who is a very estimable gentleman—to represent the United Kingdom? As for the member states at that all-important ECOFIN Council, no less than seven were represented by permanent civil servants, thus indicating the derisory attention which the Community at large, and the Council in particular, gave to examining the budget.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, it is a matter for the usual channels to organise the debates within either House of Parliament within the United Kingdom. As the noble Lord will be aware, it is usual for the line-by-line documentation with regard to the preliminary draft budget to be made available in the middle of June. It was made available on 15th June. It was deposited as soon as possible in Parliament and once we had the English version, on 2nd July. The explanatory memorandum was made available on 15th July.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, perhaps I may further correct the noble Earl. The document that was made available to the European Parliament on 25th May, which was an overview of the budget, is still not in the Printed Paper Office of this House.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I will look into the particular point that the noble Lord raises. I can say that the explanatory memorandum, which is the important document to be put before Parliament, was put before Parliament on 15th July.