Gibraltar (Hansard, 18 October 1993)

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, we shall continue to fulfil our obligations to non-self-governing territories under Chapter XI of the UN Charter. The situation in Gibraltar is complicated by historical realities, particularly the Treaty of Utrecht. We stand by our commitment to the people of Gibraltar enshrined in the constitution.

§ Lord Merrivale
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Does she agree that UN Resolution 2734, paragraph 3, of 16th December 1970 reaffirms the General Assembly's statement that obligations under the charter shall prevail over obligations under any other international agreement? Does she further agree that that declaration is applicable to self-determination in the context of decolonisation?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, we are keenly aware of the debate in Gibraltar about self-determination. Of course the British Government accept the right of the Gibraltarian people to self-determination but we take other rights and responsibilities and the Treaty of Utrecht into account. I know that the Chief Minister, Mr. Bossano, made an extremely important address to the UN Committee of 24 in July and then to the UN Fourth Committee, which is the decolonisation parent committee, on 12th October. We are well aware of the need for negotiations, to which we are committed, with Spain about Gibraltar under the 1984 Brussels agreement. We stand by our commitment to respect the wishes of the people of Gibraltar as set out in their 1969 constitution. But I do not believe that my noble friend is right to say that the UN Charter can prevail over all else when those are more recent decisions. We must bring together the Gibraltarians with the Spanish to resolve that issue. My noble friend will know that I have sought to do that on several occasions and we continue to try.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in view of the loyalty to this country of both the Government and people of Gibraltar, will my noble friend give an assurance that the wishes of the Government and the people in Gibraltar will be given very high priority indeed in those forthcoming discussions?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I can only reassure my noble friend that the wishes of the people of Gibraltar are given due consideration at all times. But, as he knows, the situation is complicated by Gibraltar's status in the EC and the Treaty of Utrecht, which was the basis for British sovereignty but which still gives Spain the right of refusal in the event of any change. We shall continue to try to resolve the issue, as I have said on many previous occasions to my noble friend.

§ Lord Archer of Sandwell
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that in consequence of recent measures introduced by the Government of Gibraltar, British subjects are in a worse position in relation to employment than the subjects of other EC states? If the Government of Gibraltar expect, as I hope they will receive, the loyalty of this country, is that not a matter which should be addressed?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there is no reason that British subjects should be in a worse position. But I shall look at the detail of what the noble Lord said. However, over a period of time we have had extremely positive discussions with Chief Minister Bossano and if there is a problem in that regard, I am quite prepared to look again at that matter.

§ Lord Merrivale
My Lords, in answer to my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter, the noble Baroness referred to dialogue. Does she agree that there was a massive turnout and enthusiasm for Gibraltar's first national day on 10th September last, the anniversary of the 1967 referendum? Therefore, do Her Majesty's Government recognise that in a process of dialogue with Spain, Gibraltar is entitled to recognition of its separate identity as a people?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am well aware that in 1967 over 99 per cent. of the people of Gibraltar voted in favour of retaining links with the United Kingdom and that, as my noble friend said, there was a massive turnout on 10th September last. Popular attitudes in Spain seem to be changing. A recent poll among Spaniards indicated that almost a quarter of them favoured self-determination for Gibraltar. Sadly, however, the Spanish Foreign Minister's statement to the United Nations at the end of September did not indicate a similar impending change of heart on the part of the government. Nevertheless, Gibraltar has a growing number of friends in Spain ready to espouse its cause; among them is the recently formed organisation, Friends of Gibraltar, which we wish well in the work that it is undertaking for Gibraltarians.

Lord Morris
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in response to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter she stated that Her Majesty's Government would give "due consideration" to the wishes of the governor and the people of Gibraltar, while he asked whether the Government would give "priority" to those wishes? Will she be good enough to distinguish between "due consideration" and consideration as a "priority"?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, perhaps I should not have used the word "due", but we have made our position absolutely clear. We are committed to negotiation. We stand by our commitment to respect the wishes of the people of Gibraltar as set out in the 1969 constitution. There is no going back on that. My "due" was meant to take all that into account. I apologise if it did not sound like it.