Passport Applications from Post Offices (Hansard, 22 March 1993)

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, under the terms of the Passport Agency's contract with Post Office Counters Ltd., post offices holding stocks of passport application forms also issue British visitors' passports. For security reasons, those facilities are limited to some 1,500 Crown and franchise post offices within Great Britain, together with a limited number of sub-post offices at ports and airports. An internal assessment of those arrangements in December 1992 by the Passport Agency concluded that the present arrangements adequately meet customer demand.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, but I am amazed by it. Is she aware that if on any day you wander into the Passport Office in Petty France you have hardly to go through the door before you can pick up passport application forms from four racks? If security there is so lax, why is security given as a reason for not allowing them to be supplied by sub-post offices?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I shall clarify my earlier Answer. The fact that the issuing of passport application forms is linked to British visitors' passports is a reason for the security considerations.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, does the issuing of application forms have to be linked to the issuing of British visitors' passports? That does not seem to make much sense to me.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am pleased to tell the noble Lady that the review carried out in December 1992 looked at the security aspect, 6 the cost benefits involved and also the needs of the customer. Only 10 complaints on this matter have been received.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that her observations about security are wholly unacceptable and unintelligible? Does she further agree that there cannot be a viable issue of security on a form?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am pleased to assure my noble friend that I am not talking about security relating to the issue of forms. I am talking about the handling of British visitors' passports, in relation to which a high level of security and staff proficiency are required.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I find even that answer a little staggering. I had assumed that security would be the answer because I could not think of any rational answer, and when there is a shortage of rational answers "Security" is what civil servants put out. The noble Baroness used the expression "customer convenience". It would be most convenient if we did not have to have passports, but while we are stuck with them customer convenience must come first. Why one cannot simply go into a sub-post office and ask for a form makes no sense to any of us. As regards complaints, the old British attitude applies: you take it for granted that you cannot obtain a form and so you do not complain. Therefore, I do not believe that the data about complaints tell us anything at all. Will the Minister go back to whoever takes the decisions about such matters and say, "Can't you be a little more sensible and place forms where people will find it convenient to collect them"?

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I hear the view of the House and of the noble Lord. But these are operational matters for the Passport Agency in its contractual arrangements with the Post Office. I have never noticed people being slow to complain. There is also the question of cost benefit, because this is taxpayers' money.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, when my noble friend tells her right honourable friend of the outrage of this House over this extraordinary provision, will she kindly impress on him the great importance of post offices in English, Welsh and Scottish villages? Furthermore, will she point out that anything which tends to make their survival unlikely is against the interests of the British people and anything which within reasonable cost makes their survival more likely is in the interests of the British people?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I hope that it will be possible to reassure my noble friend that our commitment to a nationwide network of post offices includes a rural network. We are well aware of the special importance which they have among the rural community and we most certainly value the work of sub-postmasters.

§ Viscount Caldecote
My Lords, in view of the importance which the Government attaches to the 7 work of sub-postmasters does my noble friend agree that it is highly desirable that sub-postmasters are allowed to carry out motor tax business?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, it may be seen that motor tax discs are a form of passport for motor cars, but they are outside the realms of this Question.

§ Lord Teviot
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that only three application forms are relevant to passports; they are those for adults, for children and for extensions to passports? Furthermore, is she aware that there are fewer Crown post offices in major towns because they have been made sub-post offices? Therefore, it is becoming inconvenient for people to go to Crown post offices to obtain passport application forms. Will my noble friend look at the matter again and let the House know the result in due course?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I shall certainly look at the matter again. I wish to point out that facilities are not limited to Crown post offices but extend to franchise post offices and to some sub-post offices at ports and airports.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Minister appears still to rely on the security argument. Will she confirm that it is possible for an application to be accepted and considered even if it is made on a photocopy of the original form, which makes nonsense of the security argument?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am not talking about security in relation to forms. The issuing of British visitors' passports raises the security aspect.

Lord Morris
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Question does not relate to the issuing of passports but is solely about application forms?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, as I explained in my original Answer, the Passport Agency has passport application forms linked to the issuing of British visitors' passports for operational needs.