Youth Training Guarantee (Hansard, 28 July 1993)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, the Government guarantee one or more offers of suitable training places to every young person who is entitled to and wants one. This ensures that all young people can make a positive choice of employment, full-time education or quality training. We are convinced that this is the best approach to equip young people with the relevant type and quality of skills and knowledge that they will need in the future.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister saying that the many reports, some of which come from organisations sympathetic to the 1253 Government, about training places not being available under the so-called guarantee are incorrect? Perhaps even more important, is the figure given in the July edition of the Department of Employment Gazette of 75,000 young people being unemployed and not having an education or training place incorrect?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the fact that some people are having to wait a number of weeks for a suitable place is no indication that the guarantee has broken down. It is very important that young people should have the right form of detailed advice and guidance so that each individual can decide on what is the best way forward for himself. Therefore, eight weeks, which is the test that we are putting now, seems a reasonable time to make these important choices. Young people aged 16 particularly have a habit of changing their minds and perhaps need a little time to become resolute on the training that they should take up. The noble Lord quotes from the time of the LFS winter survey when it was measuring all the people who had come out of education for that year who were subject to the guarantee, who were still on extended child benefit and to whom one or more offers had not been made.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, in view of the queries that have been raised frequently about the quality of the training given in YTS, can the noble Viscount tell us about the success rate of the training, measured in terms of jobs and qualifications obtained, particularly national vocational qualifications?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, we put tremendous stress on the fact that the training should be of a high quality. All young people on YT must have the opportunity to gain a national vocational qualification. This should be at least at level 2, except for some people who have special training needs and for whom it would be unreasonable to expect them to reach that level. As for the results, 75 per cent. of those who complete their training go into jobs, further training or education, and 53 per cent. of those who complete their training gain a qualification.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in my county the county careers service works very closely with the TEC and considers that the guarantees are being met? To what extent do all other county careers services work closely with their local TEC?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am pleased to hear from my noble friend that in his area the careers service and the TEC work closely together. It is of the utmost importance that that relationship should be a good one, and I believe that since our latest monitoring arrangement was set up last year we have managed to achieve that.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is it not a fact that part of the problem facing the YT scheme —and there seem to be well authenticated reports of guarantees not being met—has been its reliance on the private sector to provide funding and placements 1254 during an economic recession? Why are the Government so obsessed with privatisation of training provision, despite disasters like the recently reported Astra case and other indications that privatisation does not work in this area?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am very pleased to hear from the Opposition Front Bench their complete support for training for young people. I believe that to be quite a new position. Young people need skills for entry into work. It is very important that they should get the training that is suitable for the workforce of today. That is why we have put it in the hands of TECs which will know what their locality has. As for privatisation, we need a great variety of training. We need to create tremendous independence among young people. We see a little independence among your Lordships even today; and I think that that is a very good thing.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in Citizen's Charter terms severe hardship payments of income support are an essential back-up to the YT guarantee? Will he therefore consult his friends at the Department of Social Security to find out whether they can interlock their records to enable us to discover how many people waiting more than eight weeks for a youth training place are in receipt of severe hardship payments?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, we firmly believe that young people should not begin their adult life dependent on benefits. But there is of course, as the noble Earl says, the safety net of severe hardship provision which ensures that those who are looking for work or training and who are at the risk of hardship need not be without financial support. The numbers that the noble Earl is looking for are contained among those who apply for hardship payments, out of which 86 per cent. achieve them. So I do not believe that those who are in need of hardship allowances are being denied them.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, will the Minister kindly take back what he said about the attitude of the Opposition towards training for young people? I have been an education spokesman for a long time and I have spoken many times in favour of adequate training of quality for young people.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am reflecting on the enormous increase in the training of young people, the funds devoted towards it, and also the attitudes of the trade unions which have been relayed to us over the years.

§ Lord Eatwell
My Lords, will the Minister explain to the House why the training targets which the Government have laid out for the year 2000 are set below those of France?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, they are not the Government's targets, although they do support them. I agree with the noble Lord that we need to increase the skills of our labour force. The noble Lord 1255 is obviously playing his part by lecturing at university, but unfortunately those who are not up to that standard need to take the benefit of youth training.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, in answer to an earlier Question, the Minister said that 53 per cent. of the youngsters on training schemes receive a qualification. That means that 47 per cent. do not receive a qualification. Does the Minister agree that that is the saddest commentary on the quality of the schemes which are available? The noble Viscount also mentioned the labour force survey and that some youngsters may have to work for a few weeks. Did the Minister mean "a few months"? Under the survey which the Minister mentioned, is he aware that 125,000 youngsters have not received education, training or a job six months later?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, this month the number of those waiting for eight weeks has dropped to 2,500. That is a considerable achievement which I believe is very important. As regards those who do not receive a qualification, we are dealing with people who are perhaps at the bottom of the market who do not wish to go into further education because it may be that their school record has not been sufficiently attractive for them to wish to continue. Therefore, they may have received credits towards training in a modular way for some form of qualification, but they may not come out with that qualification. That does not mean to say that we should not be continuing with training.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords,—

Noble Lords
Next Question!

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Wakeham)
My Lords, in fairness to the noble Baroness, Lady White, we must now deal with the next Question.