HL Deb 28 July 1993 vol 548 cc1255-7

11.32 a.m

Baroness White asked Her Majesty's Government:

What considerations the Secretary of State for Education had in mind when he published on 1st July his proposals for restructuring university student unions and required all comments before 1st October next.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, my right honourable friend's intention was to introduce the voluntary principle for student unions. The period for consultation on the implementation of our proposals has now been extended to four months, ending on 1st November.

Baroness White

My Lords, although I thank the noble Viscount for his reply, does he agree that the original proposal was lamentably ill-considered and that the present extension is only marginally helpful? Does nobody in Great Smith Street understand that adequate consultation at the three necessary levels—namely, that of the Senate, the governing body and the students themselves—is most difficult to arrange in the first two to three weeks of the new academic year and the autumn term? Is the Minister aware that all three bodies are needed, not least because the Government's proposals do not have the general support of the vice-chancellors and principals who have to administer them?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, initially we allowed three months. Comments then indicated that a longer period would be helpful in allowing universities, colleges and students to contribute constructively on the details of implementation. We were glad to respond positively. We have now asked to receive comments by 1st November, which gives full four months for consultation.

Earl Russell

My Lords, I ask the noble Viscount to convey my thanks to the Secretary of State and all others concerned in the Department for Education for extending the consultation period. I hope that this period will give us a good many hours extra sleep next summer. Since the Secretary of State's mind is so happily changed, does he agree that the question of what was in his mind on 1st July is more appropriate to historians than it is to us?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his kind words, which I shall convey to my right honourable friend.

Lord Wilberforce

My Lords, do not the Government recognise that there is very great diversity between different universities, not only in the structure of unions but in the relationship between the unions and their university? Therefore, does the Minister agree that, if we are to have any sensible policy, it is essential that time be given for every university in the country to send in a reasoned and careful answer to the Government's inquiries?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we agree with what the noble and learned Lord has said about diversity. That is why we have extended the consultation period, which should give us the information that we need.

Lord Annan

My Lords, does the Minister recollect that the proposals which the Government are making arc almost identical to those which Sir Kenneth Berrill made in the early 1970s when he was chairman of the University Grants Committee? Does the noble Viscount also remember that the National Union of Students was a perfectly reasonable and sensible body for 15 years until 1968, when a most attractive and capable man full of vitality, Mr. Jack Straw, became president and politicised it?

Noble Lords

Really!

Lord Annan

My Lords, that is now all right because the National Union of Students is a highly respectable body. Is the noble Viscount aware that it was a Conservative Minister, the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, who first brought the union into consultation with the Government? I hope that the noble Viscount will see that the union is properly consulted this time.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, widespread consultation with all interested parties is of course vitally necessary to this process. Perhaps I may add that the future of the NUS lies in the hands of the students. It will be for them to decide whether they wish to support an external organisation using private funds.

Lord Judd

My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that the Government believe that, in a free society, the future of student bodies should, if possible, rest on consensus by all concerned with self-regulation rather than on diktat? In that context, will the Government look very seriously at the helpful suggestions being made by the students themselves as to the possibility of charitable status and the involvement of the Electoral Reform Society in their activities?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the point is that our proposals do not limit students' democratic rights. On the contrary, the codes of practice will reinforce them. We intend to make a permanent structural change so that future generations of students cannot return to the excesses of the past and that they will not have access to public funds to provide their private political agendas.