HL Deb 15 July 1993 vol 548 cc338-41

3.12 p.m.

Lord Rea asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they accept that the level of childhood malnutrition and mortality in Iraq is increasing; and whether they are actively seeking ways of encouraging and enabling Iraq to spend at least its current limit of 1.6 billion dollars on food and medical supplies.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)

My Lords, there are no reliable figures on infant mortality or malnutrition in Iraq. The suffering of the Iraqi people could immediately be alleviated if Saddam Hussein implemented Security Council Resolutions 706 and 712. We welcome Iraq's decision to renew negotiations on that on 7th July.

Lord Rea

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that predictable Answer. Is she aware of the detailed report written for UNICEF by the distinguished Canadian public health specialist, Dr. Eric Hoskins, entitled Children, War and Sanctions, which demonstrates that in Iraq infant mortality has almost trebled since the Gulf War and that 100,000 excess child and infant deaths have occurred? Is the Minister further aware that the democratic Iraq opposition in exile considers that the terms imposed by the Security Council, under which Iraq can sell up to 1.6 billion dollars-worth of oil to pay for food and medical supplies, are so draconian and humiliating that no self-respecting government can be expected to accept them?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I have not read the UNICEF report in detail but I shall turn my attention to it in the long Recess. I know that the United Kingdom has funded medical aid work and the work of the Amar appeal. It has given nearly £500,000 to the non-governmental organisation CARE for essential water and sanitation work in southern Iraq. It is further helping the Kurds in the north with medical and other assistance. I know that the Iraqi regime could ease the suffering of all Iraqi people if it agreed to implement Security Council Resolutions 706 and 712 because those resolutions would permit Iraq to export oil and to have the benefit of that oil for the Iraqi people.

Lord Finsberg

My Lords, does my noble friend believe that even if Saddam Hussein implemented those resolutions he would allow any aid to go to the Kurds whom he is systematically murdering?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I believe that some of the assistance would get through but certainly not to the total value of the oil sold. In that regard I believe that my noble friend Lord Finsberg is right. But the Kurds have made clear that they are not going for independence but are looking for autonomy. If they can achieve that autonomy they may be able to do even more to help themselves. We are there to help them to help themselves. I believe that neither they nor the Iraqi people will be able to rely on Saddam Hussein in the medium or long term.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, will the Minister kindly enlarge on the reference she made to the application of the Iraqi Government on 7th July? Precisely what have they applied for, and is there any possibility that that could help to alleviate the situation?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I understand that on 7th July representatives of the Iraqi regime went to New York to begin further discussions on Security Council Resolutions 706 and 712. I also understand that they have returned to Baghdad for further instructions. The talks have not been suspended, as was stated in some newspapers this morning: they will be reconvened when the representatives have those instructions. I can say only that we, as president of the Security Council, will do all that we can to see that Resolutions 706 and 712 are implemented.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, while acknowledging the efforts of the British and United States governments, who are making first-class endeavours to relieve the suffering, does the Minister agree that it would be wise for them to go to the Security Council and make certain that the suffering of the Kurds and the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis under the brutality of Saddam Hussein is relieved? Is it not about time that there was a united effort to stop his terrible ways and to get rid of him once and for all?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I believe that that goes a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. Nevertheless, I assure the noble Lord that in the Security Council we shall be taking all possible action to bring relief to the Iraqi people, to the Kurds, to the people in the marshlands and to ordinary Iraqis who are innocent of the actions of Saddam Hussein.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the Minister dot an "i" and cross a "t"? She said that there are no reliable figures relating to mortality and disease in Iraq. Does the blanket statement cover the report mentioned by my noble friend Lord Rea about infant mortality? That report by Dr. Hoskins indicates that infant mortality has trebled since the end of the Gulf War and that there have been 100,000 excess infant deaths.

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, my initial Answer was that there are no reliable figures on infant mortality or malnutrition, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Rea. The reason is that figures are made up when they have none. Although I shall look at the report in considerable detail I cannot say that there is anything on which we can currently judge the level of difficulty, although we know and fully accept that it is great.

Lord Judd

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the whole House is agreed that we are dealing with a cynically ruthless and cruel regime which is responsible for taking the lives of thousands of its own people? Does she agree that the priority must be a change of government and that effective pressure is therefore essential? But will the Minister also agree that that must never be at the price of an unacceptable degree of suffering by the vulnerable and innocent? Will the Government look at the possibility of lifting the blockade as regards areas largely controlled by the Kurds, of ensuring direct humanitarian supplies to the Shi'ites most at risk and to those who have fled to the marshes on the Iranian border, and of ensuring the effective delivery of desperately needed spare parts for sewage treatment and water purification plants?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, all those matters are under constant review. However, I make it clear again that there is one way above all which can bring relief to all sections of the Iraqi people; that is, the implementation of Resolutions 706 arid 712.

Lord Rea

My Lords, does the Minister not see a parallel situation in which Saddam Hussein is strengthening his position with regard to his own people? He can point to sanctions in the same way that Hitler did 12 years after the signing of the Versailles Treaty and so increased his popularity with the German people.

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, no. I believe that there are many people, led by the opposition to Saddam Hussein, who know the truth of the situation and who are making sure that it is known throughout the country.