HL Deb 19 January 1993 vol 541 cc810-2

2.46 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

What arrangements they are now making with other governments to investigate alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity in the former Yugoslavia and to interrogate persons accused of committing them.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, on 14th January 1993 the EC Foreign Affairs Council agreed to support the creation of a Yugoslav-specific international criminal court at the UN to try cases of war crimes. In the longer term the International Law Commission of the UN has been mandated by the UN General Assembly to draft a statute for an international criminal court with universal jurisdiction.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that encouraging Answer. In order for any effective action to be taken on the evidence being collected by the United Nations commission in former Yugoslavia, should not such an international court be established to try persons accused of recognised international crimes, including those in the 1949 Geneva Conventions? That is now possible because the Soviet Union no longer exists to oppose it.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, that is exactly what we are trying to do. For instance, the abhorrent practice of ethnic cleansing constitutes a grave breach of the 1949 Geneva Conventions. The fourth Geneva Convention relates to the protection of civilians in time of war, and ethnic cleansing contravenes that.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, while the reply which my noble friend has given is wholly satisfactory can she go a little further? We have heard twice in this House that a statute is being negotiated. Does my noble friend agree that there is some urgency in setting up the international court with powers of arrest, trial and sentence? Will my noble friend elaborate on the progress of the negotiations?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, United Nations Security Council Resolution 780 called for the establishment of a commission of experts to examine, analyse and investigate the information on war crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia submitted under the previous United Nations Security Council Resolution 771. The perpetrators of such outrages must be left in no doubt about the fact that they will be held individually responsible for their actions. That United Nations commission of experts will report to the United Nations Secretary General at the end of this month with its findings and recommendations for further action.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, is it not a question of first catch your hare?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I asked those briefing me that very question. The answer that they gave me is that there is no guarantee that the states involved in the conflict in former Yugoslavia will hand over those accused of war crimes to stand trial before a Yugoslav specific international criminal court. If that happens, it will be for the international community to bring pressure to bear through the UN on states which refuse to comply. I hope that that satisfies my noble and learned friend.

Lord Richard

My Lords, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs said yesterday that the findings of the Warburton mission prompted Her Majesty's Government to take the initiative in setting up a criminal court to remind the perpetrators of such atrocities that they are personally responsible. What initiative do the Government have in mind apart from the one about which the noble Baroness has already told us?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the United Kingdom has co-ordinated arrangements for the CSCE's mission to visit Serbia to investigate charges by Bosnians that Moslem prisoners are being held there. That mission is now in Serbia. Also, the CSCE chairman in office has been drafting a statute for an ad hoc tribunal to try cases of war crimes committed in former Yugoslavia. That is being carried out in consultation with the United Nations commission of experts.

Lord Richard

My Lords, therefore, do I take it that there is no specific British initiative in mind other than that conducted through the UN about which the noble Baroness has already told us?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, no, because the CSCE is part of the European picture.

Lord Monson

My Lords, will the noble Baroness agree that one of the problems about singling out the former Yugoslavia for war crimes investigations is that one lays oneself open to a charge of selectivity given that, unfortunately, war crimes, albeit less widely publicised ones, have taken place in a great many parts of the world ever since the end of World War Two?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am not sure whether or not to agree with the noble Lord.

Lord Gisborough

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the suggestion in the press that the setting up of war crimes trials might be negotiated away in favour of political settlement? Does she agree that that is totally unacceptable and that it would only encourage people in other countries to commit the same sort of crimes?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I have not read that in the press but, as I said before, the perpetrators of outrages must be left in no doubt that they will be held individually responsible for their actions. That is the nub of the matter.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, we are given to understand that investigations are taking place in the Falkland Islands into British soldiers who are alleged to have committed war crimes in the Falkland Islands. Would they be subject to trials by a United Nations commission on war crimes? I sincerely hope not.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord would care to table a Question on that very subject.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, with reference to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Monson, does my noble friend agree that an international court of the kind that I have advocated would deal with international war crimes in any part of the world? Since at present war crimes trials have to be held within the jurisdiction of an individual country—no longer identifiable in the case of former Yugoslavia —would not the early prospect of an international court be a deterrent to those now engaged in ethnic cleansing, a form of genocide?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, unravelling the picture as regards the crimes has been complicated. There are two separate issues. The first is a permanent court, which is what the United Nations is looking at. Secondly, the United Nations is looking at a specific Yugoslav court. There will be a report on that soon. I hope, as my noble friend does, that action will ensue.