Fraud and Drug Investigations: Responsibilities (Hansard, 11 February 1993)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, the police will continue to be the principal agency responsible for the investigation of fraud. The police and Her Majesty's Customs and Excise will remain responsible for investigating and dealing with drug trafficking.

§ Lord Harris of Greenwich
My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply, which I welcome. Is he aware of the suspicions which have been created in recent weeks, both among senior police officers and a wider public, by widespread Press reports that the Government are considering giving some responsibility to the Security Service for investigations of that character? Is he aware that that suspicion is due in part to the fact that when similar Press reports were published at the beginning of last year concerning investigations into IRA terrorism they were described at the time as speculative; but unhappily were followed by a Statement by the Home Secretary that the Security Service was to be given just such a responsibility?
Is the noble Earl aware that the Answer he has given today will reassure a number of people about the Government's intentions? However, many of us would be grateful if he would comment on the letter which the Home Secretary sent to Mr. Blair in which he appeared significantly to qualify the assurance which has been given today?

Earl Ferrets
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, is worried by newspaper reports. However, he will not believe everything that appears in newspaper reports. I can assure him that there is nothing in those rumours when I say that the Security Service is governed by the Security Service Act 1989. Under that Act, the Security Service can act only either to protect national security or to safeguard the economic well-being of the United Kingdom. Fraud and drug trafficking, although serious, do not constitute a threat to national security. The Security Service therefore has no locus in investigating fraud or drug trafficking. The Security Service has never sought to become involved in that area.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, is the Minister aware that our Customs and Excise personnel are held in high esteem throughout the world, in particular by many European countries which they help? Do the officials receive remuneration for the valuable help which they give in investigating drug offences?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, so far as I know, Customs and Excise officials are paid. I do not know the point to which the noble Baroness refers.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, in his second reply, the Minister appeared to indicate that newspaper reports were at issue. I put it to him that that is not the case. These are direct quotations from a letter from the Home Secretary to Mr. Tony Blair. He stated: I can therefore give you a clear assurance that while this assessment remains", that is, while none of these matters is on such a scale as to constitute a threat to national security, there will be no question of the Security Service undertaking investigations in such matters". Is that not a qualification of the unequivocal assurance that the noble Earl gave in his first Answer? Will he tell the House who is responsible for deciding what are matters of national security? Have there not been changes in the assessment of what are matters of national security?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I do not believe that there is any difference or qualification. As I explained to your Lordships, the Security Service is governed by the Act. The Act states what it is permitted to do. It can only take action to protect national security. If drug trafficking or fraud were of such a high scale that it affected national security, the Security Service could act. But that is a very unlikely situation. That is the only qualification that my right honourable friend would have given.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, will the noble Earl confirm that the remarks he made on drug trafficking also refer to money laundering?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the Question referred to drug trafficking. Money laundering may result from drug trafficking. However, the point that I impress upon the noble Lord is that intelligence may be gathered by other people but that the investigating process is carried out by the police.