HL Deb 08 February 1993 vol 542 cc421-3

2.50 p.m.

Lord Ashley of Stoke asked Her Majesty's Government:

Following their announcement about the successor bodies to the Independent Living Fund, which organisations have made representations on this subject, and what have been their chief concerns.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Henley)

My Lords, representations have been received from a number of organisations, including Age Concern and the Alzheimer's Disease Society. Their chief concerns have been the early closure of the existing Independent Living Fund to new applications and the fact that the successor body for new cases will be restricted to those aged 16 to 65 at the time of application.

Lord Ashley of Stoke

My Lords, I appreciate that Answer. Has the Minister been able to give a constructive response to the bodies concerned? Will he consider that in future severely disabled people will suffer under the new arrangements because there will be a mixture of cash from the new body and services from the local authorities? Furthermore, there is no guarantee that the local authorities can deliver and, even if they can, severely disabled people will not have control of their own lives. Therefore, will the Government allow local authorities to pay cash and will Ministers meet with organisations representing the disabled in order to discuss those issues?

Lord Henley

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Minister of State for Social Security and Disabled People is always prepared to meet any organisation in order to discuss further the arrangements. But I believe that we have been able to give adequate responses to the representations made by the different organisations. This is not the time or the place to list exactly what those responses were because I should be wasting the House's time.

The noble Lord also asked that we consider whether the local authorities ought to be able to make cash payments. I would not wish to re-run all the arguments which went through both Houses of Parliament during the passage of what is now the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990. As the noble Lord will know, we gave careful consideration to whether local authorities should be able to make cash payments. However, there are considerable difficulties in determining which clients would be eligible and in the controlling of costs. There is also the danger of creating a bureaucratic and inflexible system.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham

My Lords, is it not the case that claimants of the ILF had to be in receipt of a disability living allowance? Is it not also the case that when on 25th November the shutters came down on that fund the processing of claims for DLA was running up to three months late? As a result of government delays many people lost eligibility for funding from the ILF through no fault of their own. How many people lost their funding as a result of government delays? Furthermore, what does the Minister intend to do about that; and what is happening to all those who would have been eligible for funding between 25th November and 1st April, when the new fund comes into existence?

Lord Henley

My Lords, not surprisingly, the noble Baroness is wrong—

Noble Lords

Oh!

Lord Henley

My Lords, it was never the case that individuals had to be in receipt of a disability living allowance in order to receive an award from the ILF. It was always the case that the ILF had the discretion to deal with claims before any such application for a disability living allowance had been dealt with. In response to the noble Baroness's second question, we have received only 20 complaints or queries on that matter.

Lord Rix

My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that when the Government consider the pros and cons of the new arrangements they will take into consideration the effect on those people with a severe learning disability who, thanks to the ILF, have already obtained houses in the community?

Lord Henley

My Lords, all those in receipt of funds from the ILF will be protected under the new arrangements. As the noble Lord will know, there will be two successor funds to the ILF, one of which will deal with existing cases. More than 20,000 people are in receipt of funds from the ILF and they will be protected.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, will the Minister consider giving a more felicitous answer to my noble friend on the Front Bench?

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that on the basis of the record so far it is far more likely that my noble friend is correct than those on the Government Benches, who are often wrongly briefed, even if they understand the briefs?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I always thought that I was felicitous in my response to the noble Baroness, and for that matter to the noble Lord. It so happens that on this occasion the noble Baroness is wrong.