Employment Appeal Tribunal (Hansard, 8 February 1993)

HL Deb 08 February 1993 vol 542 cc423-4 423

§ 2.56 p.m.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden asked Her Majesty's Government:

§ What is now the average delay in securing hearings before the Employment Appeal Tribunal.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, the average length of time for a case to come to hearing is two years.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is that not quite unacceptable? It must be understood that this is on top of delays at industrial tribunal level and, therefore, it could take four years to resolve an employment issue such as unfair dismissal. Is that really the way to enforce employment rights? Cannot more resources be allocated to the system? Can we not have more judges? Why is it that the waiting time in Scotland is so much shorter?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I accept that the current delays in cases receiving to a full hearing are unacceptable. During 1992 and continuing into 1993 my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor, who appoints the judges, has made additional judge time available. In addition, an extra courtroom has been provided so that four courts can sit simultaneously. As regards the noble Baroness's final point, it is a matter of pressure on resources; the courts in Scotland do not deal with as many appeals.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, if the average delay is two years, what is the longest delay for any case?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I do not have that figure. It would be wrong to indicate that all the cases which go to appeal receive a full hearing. It is decided that many do not fall within the jurisdiction of the court at a preliminary hearing; many are settled, and many others are withdrawn.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, will the Minister provide an answer to my question at some stage? Perhaps he will place a copy in the Library?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, yes.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, considering that judge power comes from a single pool, will my noble friend approach my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack yet again for an increase in the number of judges of adequate quality in order to deal with all forms of judicial work?

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§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I hear what my noble and learned friend has said. I daresay that my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor has also heard his remark.

§ Lord Meston
My Lords, will the Minister indicate what is the average delay in cases in which reinstatement or re-engagement of the employee is a live issue?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I believe that all the cases of unfair dismissal, for instance, which go to appeal can have that result. However, at the end of the day whether there is compensation or reinstatement is decided by the appeal tribunal.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, will the Minister indicate the extent to which the changes in the constitution of the industrial and employment appeals tribunals proposed in the current employment legislation will speed up the hearings?

§ Viscount Ullswater
Yes, my Lords. The proposals in the current employment legislation will enable cases to be handled more speedily because it will allow for the Employment Appeal Tribunal's president and judges to sit alone in certain cases. Obviously the arrangement of a court of only one will be much more speedy than with the lay members.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that if it takes so long to enforce employment rights, there is not much point in having them in legislation at all? Should not something more be done to increase resources to the EAT? Is it a fact that only one of the judges sitting is full time while the other three are High Court judges?

§ Viscount Ullswater
Yes, my Lords; I understand that to be the position. The president is a full-time judge. It is a question of judge time rather than full-time judges. I do not agree with the noble Baroness's first point. I believe that industrial tribunals and the EAT can effectively decide many industrial relations cases and they are worthy of support.