HL Deb 19 October 1992 vol 539 cc599-602

2.56 p.m.

Lord Merrivale asked Her Majesty's Government:

In view of the forthcoming cessation of the functions of Property Services Agency International in Gibraltar, what plans they have for retraining PSAI staff, training for senior posts and restructuring the agency.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Strathclyde)

My Lords, as from April 1993 PSA International will be replaced by a contractor appointed by MoD. PSA International has undertaken to help redundant staff find jobs and to give training to enhance their skills. We hope that the contractor selected will offer many of them jobs. Their skills have been brought to the attention of the tenderers.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Can he say how many persons currently employed by PSA International are being transferred to the MoD with their work? Have any final decisions been reached in the medium term as to what work will be available in Gibraltar, and what steps are being taken to find alternative employment in lieu of Ministry of Defence work?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I can tell my noble friend that those who are not transferred to the MoD will face redundancy. However, it is too early to assess the numbers that will be taken on by the MoD. Jobs will be sought in other government departments as well as the MoD.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham

My Lords, given that the MoD, to which PSA International staff can be seconded, is making its own staff redundant; given that Tarmac, to which PSA's 1,800 home staff are being seconded, will make half of them redundant; and given that the construction industry is currently making thousands of similarly qualified professional staff redundant—all good, hardworking, public spirited staff who will now have nowhere else to go—will the Government, who are laying waste our construction, mining, and manufacturing industries and the economy, please encourage the responsible Ministers to join these PSA staff and those in the rest of the country who face redundancy?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, that question has nothing to do with the PSA in Gibraltar.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, will the Government publish details as to the impact on the local economy caused by decisions taken now and in the future by Her Majesty's Government? I believe I am right in saying that the Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Mr. Archibald Hamilton, is currently investigating this subject and is due to report on the matter. Will this information be available to the public at large and also to Members of both Houses of Parliament?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, it is too early to tell what the effect will be on the Gibraltarian economy. I say that because the contract has not been given to anyone. In my initial reply I said that retraining would be offered to local staff and that expatriate staff will be brought back to the United Kingdom where jobs will be sought for them. I shall have to ascertain whether a report is to be made by the Ministry of Defence. Perhaps I may write to my noble friend on the matter.

Lord Shepherd

My Lords, the Minister made no reference to the Government of Gibraltar. Can he tell the House what consultations Her Majesty's Government have had with that government? In recognition of the dramatic way in which the Government and people of Gibraltar have overcome many of the vicissitudes caused by the collapse of the naval dockyard in Gibraltar, what consultations have the Government had with the Gibraltarian Government?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I am sure that the Gibraltarian Government have been kept fully informed about what is happening with PSA International. However, I should like to make the point that the local staff will be offered retraining in a substantial number of skills, including HGV training, forklift operating, welding, joinery, and glazing and re-glazing. That will give them an opportunity to find employment in Gibraltar.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, can my noble friend say what is the attitude of the Government of Gibraltar? Are they happy with the proposal?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I cannot tell my noble friend what their attitude is.

Lord Shepherd

My Lords, the Minister could be a little more explicit. He used the words "We hope" and referred to an assurance, but can he say whether or not there have been consultations with the Government of Gibraltar in the matter?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I cannot confirm that the opinion of the Gibraltarian Government was taken explicitly on the matter.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, perhaps I may press the Minister a little further on the matter. Is he really saying that Her Majesty's Government are unaware of the attitude of the Government of Gibraltar'? If they are not aware of it, are they not neglecting their proper job?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, this Government's interest is in the British taxpayer. It is for that reason—protecting the interests of the British taxpayer—that the decision has been made on PSA International.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend really saying that the Government do not know what is the attitude of the Government of Gibraltar? Is he really saying that Her Majesty's Government have acted in complete ignorance of the views of the relevant local government?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, the point I am trying to make is that this is a decision for the British Government and for the MoD locally. The Government have ensured that the locally employed staff will be offered training so that they can find new jobs.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the impression he is giving as a result of his answers is not merely that the Government do not know, but that they do not care? Is that not all too typical of the Government's activities and actions in many matters?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, if the British Government did not care, we would not be offering the kind of skills retraining which will give so many opportunities to the people who, unfortunately, will be made redundant in Gibraltar.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the British Cabinet was made aware of the situation and whether it was a full Cabinet decision?

Lord Strathclyde

No, my Lords.