HL Deb 26 November 1992 vol 540 cc1052-4

3.24 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether it is their policy to install sprinklers as an automatic and immediate measure against the spread of fire in appropriate historic buildings for which they have responsibility.

Viscount Astor

My Lords, the Government's policy is that all historic buildings should have adequate fire detection and prevention systems which are suitable for the individual building. Each historic building is unique. Method of construction, contents, location and number of persons who may be present have to be taken into account when considering whether sprinklers are appropriate.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that very sensible Answer. But are not sprinkler systems especially suitable for premises which are unoccupied for many hours? Although the water may cause some damage, is it not likely to be much less than that from the hoses which might be used on a fire later?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, sprinklers are indiscriminate in their use and can be triggered by a false alarm or smoke. A planned response to the particular circumstances of a fire is preferable. Sprinkler technology is, of course, improving all the time and its appropriateness will be kept under review. The National Gallery, for example, has recently installed a fire detection system. A sprinkler system has been installed in the non-picture areas of the gallery, but the gallery's view is that sprinklers are not installed in the picture areas as they can often do more damage than fire to the paintings.

Earl Russell

My Lords, may I thank the noble Viscount for drawing attention to the risks to pictures, and ask the Government to take into account also the risks from sprinklers to historical manuscripts?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, yes. Another reason why sprinklers are not always appropriate in certain rooms is that they may contain items such as manuscripts.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, may I ask whether this magnificent Chamber has sprinklers?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, I do not know the answer to that, but I believe not.

Lord Montagu of Beaulieu

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the use or non-use of sprinklers needs fine judgment and expert advice whereas there is no substitute for a well-trained firefighting force or for well-trained staff working in a snatch squad, as has been so effectively shown recently at Hampton Court and at Windsor Castle?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Montagu. Following the Hampton Court fire, a detailed survey of electrical services and fire precautions was carried out at Windsor Castle and included the Chester Tower. In addition, in 1988 the Property Services Agency surveyed every part of the interior of the castle and recorded its findings in drawings, photographs and written reports. As a result of that, a works programme costing over £20 million was started in 1988 and is now nearing completion. It included fire prevention measures, such as re-wiring, an automatic fire detection system and fire-retardant measures.

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, I understand that the 1971 Fire Precautions Act requires premises to have a fire certificate. May I ask whether Windsor Castle had and has a fire certificate; and, if so, did it help, and if not, why not?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Donoughue, is quite right that the Fire Precautions Act 1971 requires certain premises designated by the Home Secretary to have fire certificates. Royal residences are not included. The fire authority's responsibility is to ensure that the premises have adequate means of fire warning, escape and fire fighting. Incidentally, there is no specific requirement to fit sprinklers. The advice of the fire inspector depends on the circumstances. However, it is the policy of the Royal palaces to comply with the Act on a voluntary basis. The guidance in the regulations was more than fully complied with at Windsor Castle.

Lord Elton

My Lords, my noble friend has pointed out the danger of the accidental triggering of sprinkler systems and the damage that follows, but has thought been given to the use of sprinkler systems triggered by the fire brigade on arrival in areas which the fire brigade cannot safely reach once a fire has broken out, such as the void above ancient ceilings and that which exists above this Chamber?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Elton makes an important point. He referred to one of the difficulties at Windsor Castle. The fire spread through roof voids which were difficult to reach and, equally, are probably rather difficult in which to install sprinklers. It is too early to tell what lessons may be learned from the Windsor fire, but we shall certainly look at the report very carefully when it is available.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, can the Minister say whether any recent examination of the desirability of improving the fire precaution facilities in the Palace of Westminster has been carried out and, if not, would it not be desirable for such an examination to take place?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, I think that that has been done fairly recently. I am sure that, in the light of the fire at Windsor, many owners of historic properties will look carefully at their fire precautions.

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