Croatia: "Ethnic Cleansing" (Hansard, 17 November 1992)

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, these will be among the issues which my noble friend Lady Chalker of Wallasey will be discussing with the UN Secretary-General later this week.
I have just received the text of UN Security Council Resolution 787 which was signed last night. In order to cut the Question short, I should say that it contains all the information which your Lordships may want. Ten nations were in favour of the resolution, there were two abstentions (China and Zimbabwe) and none against. The resolution contains the following elements: support for the Owen/Vance constitutional proposals for Bosnia; condemnation of violations of humanitarian law, including the deliberate impeding of humanitarian supplies; further measures to tighten 526 existing sanctions, including authority to stop and search suspect shipping; a ban on transhipment of strategic goods (oil etc.) across Serbia and Montenegro, except with specific UN permission; a warning to the Croats that their policies in Bosnia are under close international scrutiny; and implementa-tion of a decision at the London Conference on Yugoslavia to deploy monitors along the Bosnian borders.

§ Lord Monson
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that most helpful reply. Given that the Serbian forces have enough arms and ammunition to last them for perhaps 20 years and the Croatians enough for perhaps 10 years, will the noble Baroness agree that it is high time that the iniquitous and indefensible arms embargo against the legitimate government of Bosnia was lifted? Otherwise, the ill-armed Moslems will be virtually eliminated within 12 months, with the apparent connivance of the West. Will the Minister agree that, quite apart from the humanitarian aspects, this would poison relations between Islam and the West for generations to come?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we are not in the business of providing arms to Bosnia. We think that that would be totally counter-productive.

§ Lord Renfrew of Kaimsthorn
My Lords, will my noble friend agree that there is a considerable risk of the spread of conflict? Will she indicate what measures are contemplated if the policy of ethnic cleansing is extended to Kosovo? Can she brief us as to what progress the European Community has made with Greece towards the recognition of the province of Skopje, Macedonia?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, in answer to my noble friend, we deplore and condemn ethnic cleansing and all atrocities. All parties, but primarily the Bosnian Serbs, are to blame. United Nations Security Council Resolution 780 provides for the creation of an impartial commission of experts to assist the UN Secretary-General in the collation and analysis of evidence of war crimes in the former Yugoslavia and report to the UN Secretary-General. The UN Secretary-General has appointed commission members from the Netherlands, Egypt, Canada, Senegal and Norway and the commission will be based in Geneva. Quite honestly, I think that the second part of my noble friend's question is wide of that on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, will the noble Baroness give the Government's latest estimate of the total number of people currently detained in Bosnia-Herzegovina by the different sides? Will she outline what specific measures the Government are taking through the UN and through their presidency of the European Community to secure the release and resettlement of those people?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, as noble Lords will know, my noble, and unfortunate, friend Lord Ferrers will make a Statement later which is relevant to the question asked by the noble Lord.

§ Lord Monson
My Lords, does not the noble Baroness agree that the argument that one should not allow people who are defending themselves from aggression to have access to arms is an excellent pacifist argument but that it is a rotten argument for anyone who is not a pacifist?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, if my noble friend will not reply to that question —it appears she will not—does she not agree that the term "ethnic cleansing" is rather misleading as it sounds as if it might have some virtue? It is actually used to describe the process followed by Hitler and Stalin; it is a mixture of genocide and mass transportation of populations. That process is not restricted to Yugoslavia but is also occurring in Nagorno-Karabakh at this moment. This House is deeply disturbed that no one has yet found any effective way of impeding it.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the Foreign Affairs Council declaration of 5th October makes clear that the perpetrators of mass killings and other grave breaches of international law will be held individually responsible for their actions. I have already said that we deplore and condemn all atrocities.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, is it not the case that sanctions on Serbia are conspicuously failing at the moment? We read daily in the press of vast quantities of petroleum products being shipped up the Danube and being shipped through Greece and Bulgaria. What are the Government doing to ensure that the United Nations sanctions are made effective?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, sanctions are having a marked effect on the Serbian and Montenegran economies. It is important to maintain the pressure and to tighten implementation. EC/CSCE sanctions assistance missions under way in Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria have the aim of assisting local authorities to enforce UN sanctions more efficiently. Plans to extend these to Macedonia and other states, including neighbouring Serbia and Montenegro, are under way.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, with the greatest possible respect, does the noble Baroness accept that there is no confusion between this Question and the Statement to be dealt with later this afternoon? What we are seeking is information about the total number of people detained and what is being done to seek their release from detention. The issue of visas is quite another matter.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I have found the passage I was looking for. There are over 3 million displaced people within the former Yugoslavia, of whom 1,640,000 are in Bosnia, and there are approximately 566,000 refugees or displaced people in other countries.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, following the question asked by my noble friend Lord Tordoff and the answer we received, is the noble Baroness really telling 528 the House that the press is inaccurate in saying that there is now no shortage of petroleum in these countries?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, as I said in my original reply, the matter of tightening existing sanctions was accepted in the United Nations resolution passed last night. Everyone is aware of what is going on and steps are being taken to close any holes.