§ Lord Judd asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will propose a review of the implications of the common agricultural policy for food security in the third world.
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington): My Lords, in both the CAP reform and the GATT negotiations the Government take full account of the potential implications of change for developing countries. The Government have no plans for a review at present.
§ Lord JuddMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, does she agree that over the past decade highly subsidised agricultural exports from the Community and from the United States have severely undermined agricultural production and food security in the third world, and exports by the third world? How can that situation be in the interests of sound social and economic development in the third world, or indeed in the interests of consumers and taxpayers in the Community? Is it not high time there was a comprehensive review of how development policy and agricultural policy could support each other?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the European Community's export policy for agriculture is primarily directed towards managing Community markets and enabling Community produce to compete in world markets. The Community has other policies which are directed specifically at the interests of developing countries. These include arrangements for preferential imports from these countries as well as the provision of food aid where that is needed. For the future, policy will be influenced by the outcome of CAP reform and the GATT negotiations where the interests of those countries are being fully considered.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, is it not the case that there is an anomaly between the attitude of the Community's development policy overseas and its agricultural policy within the Community? Would it not be far better both for the Community and for the people of the third world if instead of giving food aid, the Community were to make provision for a great deal more exports of foodstuffs from the third world, which would necessitate undermining and cutting the subsidies on food production in Europe?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, it is a question of the relationship between GATT and the CAP. Significant changes to the CAP would be necessary to implement a GATT agreement. But the CAP reform 150 proposals do not address the key issues for the round, which are import access and export subsidies. Agreement in the Community on CAP reform will not be reached quickly. Therefore we want agreement on GATT to he reached first to provide a framework for CAP reform.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, are we not whistling in the dark? A satisfactory settlement regarding GATT is impossible without a fundamental change in the common agricultural policy. Should not that fact be faced up to and dealt with? I recognise the matter is not completely in our hands, but energetic efforts to settle the first problem of the CAP would appear to enable us to start to solve the GATT question.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I am afraid I do not agree with my noble friend. It is vital that the GATT discussions succeed because they will provide boundaries within which CAP reform can take place.
§ Lord GallacherMy Lords, in the current discussions on the restructuring of the CAP, is regard being paid to the preferential arrangements whereby member countries in the African, Caribbean and Pacific group are permitted to export to the Community agricultural products on favourable terms? As regards the main part of my noble friend's Question, how is it possible for us to achieve some radical reforms of the CAP to take account of the needs of developing countries so long as the powers on initiatives for change rest in the hands of the Commission?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, it is the only body we have to deal with. As regards the ACP countries, I presume the noble Lord refers to bananas. That is a complicated and ongoing subject. The Commission has so far not put forward proposals on that matter.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, has any progress been made in achieving agreement in the Uruguay Round of the GATT?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the current state of play on GATT is that the draft agreement produced by Mr. Dunkel requires some clarification but it provides the basis for a possible agreement. However, several EC member states maintain strong reservations, and further negotiations will be needed before an agreement is possible. The UK will continue to work with our European partners towards achieving an early and successful settlement.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that on all sides of the House the successful conclusion of the Uruguay Round is regarded as one of the most important political issues in the world today, and that failure to resolve it will have the direst consequences right across the globe, including in this country?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I can only agree with the noble Baroness.
§ Lord CheshireMy Lords, can the noble Baroness give a definition of the terms "third world" and "developing world"? Both have been used. Are they synonymous? Times change; and Poland, for example, is now below the breadline owing to circumstances. Do those terms apply to such countries or is third world a fixed term applying to certain countries only?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, it is my understanding—and I stand to be corrected—that the current phraseology refers to developing countries rather than the third world.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware of the figures which my noble friend Lord Judd quoted a few weeks ago; namely, that 1,000 million people in the world are starving; 170 million of them die each year. Of those 170 million, 92 million are children; and of those 92 million, some 30 million are babies? Is it outwith the ability of governments of countries which have food and are capable of growing food to do something about that?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the Government's prime objective is to help countries with food deficits to produce food for themselves; for instance, to provide fishing rods rather than fish. For example, the Commonwealth Development Corporation, which does the most wonderful job, provides assistance for Commonwealth countries, financed largely on the basis of concessional loans from the aid programme.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that 10 years ago when I entered this House the noble Lord, Lord Renton, whom I do not see in his seat today, made a speech on this subject in which he told the House that both the teaching of such people to grow their own food and providing food for starving people were long term matters. That has proved to be the case. Here we are 10 years later and there is still a problem.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, we have to produce suitable food. There is no shortage of suitable food. The problems of delivering food to famine areas are usually due to factors such as lack of resources, poor transport and inadequate distribution. What is the use of sending milk powder to countries where the water is contaminated?
§ Lord JuddMy Lords, does the Minister agree that whatever may be said about the relationship between the common agricultural policy and the Uruguay Round, many people in the world believe that there cannot be a satisfactory outcome to the Uruguay Round in the interests of the third world before there is a fundamental reform of the CAP because of the CAP's ruthless commitment to social priorities within Europe whatever the cost to the third world?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I have already answered the point about GATT and the CAP.