International Atomic Energy Agency (Hansard, 14 December 1992)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Baroness Denton of Wakefield)
My Lords, the words which the noble Lord described on 23rd November as a statement by the International Atomic Energy Agency were in fact personal comments made at an industrial meeting in Japan by Mr. Dircks, the agency's deputy director general for administration. The words were quoted out of context.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that she makes a noble attempt to extract herself from a quite impossible situation? Is the noble Baroness not aware that this is a matter of international concern? There is a surplus of plutonium for which no commercial use is available. There is great anxiety about this matter throughout the country. The Government are developing a reprocessing plant at Thorp. Will the noble Baroness say whether the Government will reconsider their position? In the meantime, will they arrest or halt the idea of further increasing the surplus of plutonium by increasing the recycling process at Thorp?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I shall attempt to cover the numerous questions raised by the noble Lord. First, I have always felt that sharing the facts was not a means of extricating oneself from a difficult situation. Secondly, reprocessing does not create plutonium; it recovers the material in a form which can be, and increasingly is, recycled to generate electricity. That means that this country has an energy resource. I suggest that the noble Lord confuses real anxiety with statements that people are anxious by groups opposed to nuclear power.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, can the Minister say whether the international agency has any executive or legislative authority? Can its pronun-ciamentos be anything other than its own point of view?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am happy to tell the noble Earl that, when statements are made by executives of the agency, they are personal remarks and are identified as such. We are of course indebted to the agency for the management of some of the safeguard regulations.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness can help me. I had always understood—perhaps I was wrong—that one of the reasons for building Thorp was that plutonium extracting would be used in fast breeder reactors. As fast breeder reactors are no longer viable and the British Government have withdrawn their support, 389 will there be an excess of plutonium which will prove difficult to store? If so, should not the Government be seriously considering what my noble friend said?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, your Lordships will appreciate that it gives me great pleasure to help the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. First, the United Kingdom is not turning its back on the fast reactor, having spent £4 billion on it over the past 40 years. We have a validated design which can be developed commercially if and when it becomes economically viable. Plutonium can be used to generate electricity in ordinary reactors. Perhaps I can point out that, of the secure orders for £9 billion held by Thorp, over half are from overseas.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, if fast breeder reactors become commercially viable, will not the whole economics of the coal industry be transformed and make that method of power generation even more viable? Thus the nuclear industry would effectively cease to be viable.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, your Lordships have heard me say time and again recently that no remark I make at the Box should prejudice the coal review. The noble Lord was asking a hypothetical question.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, the noble Baroness said that the statement by Mr. Dircks was personal and out of context. However, does she agree that even if that were so it would not make the statement wrong? It could still be a perfectly correct statement. The statement was that the excess of recycled plutonium poses a major political and security problem worldwide. The noble Baroness offered to help my noble friend Lord Stoddart of Swindon; perhaps she could extend the hand of friendship to me. Is the view of Her Majesty's Government that the statement is true or false? In other words, does the excess of recycled plutonium pose a major political and security problem worldwide? It is important to know.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Peston, will agree that, whether one is storing safely and securely under international safeguards 30 tonnes or 40 tonnes of plutonium, the issues are the same. For the benefit of your Lordships, Mr. Dircks drew attention to the fact that the demand for plutonium is lower than expected. Separation of the plutonium is temporarily running ahead of its use. He suggested that it may be helpful to hold discussions regarding the possibility of international participation in managing the stocks.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, I am glad that the noble Baroness is showing signs of understanding the problem. Is she aware that international concern on the matter is growing? As there is no feasible commercial use for plutonium, the question of what grade is concerned when the separation takes place is secondary. We are embarked on a process with France which is internationally regarded with anxiety. Will the noble Baroness take the issue back to her colleagues in government and ask them to look at the whole question again?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am sorry if I confused the noble Lord. I am totally in support of the Thorp reprocessing plant and its ability to earn overseas income. I suggest that the noble Lord discusses the matter with the Opposition spokesman on energy in another place, who made it clear to the unions represented at Sellafield that the Labour Party supports Thorp.