Young People: Social Security Benefits (Hansard, 20 May 1991)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Henley)
My Lords, the Government are closely monitoring policy in this area. We shall study carefully the report of the national children's organisations alongside the independent research that the Government commissioned last year from MORI, a copy of which I expect to receive shortly.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does he agree that young people aged between 16 and 18 who have been in care for many years and who therefore have no home background or parental support are vulnerable to vagrancy, prostitution, begging and juvenile crime? Furthermore, does the Minister agree that while his ministry is important in helping such children a co-ordinated, overall policy is required? It should be directed at all the ministries involved; that is, those dealing with housing, work, youth employment, education and health. Will my noble friend make representations to his right honourable friend the Secretary of State to set up a review which can report to Parliament on an overall, co-ordinated policy for these young people as recommended in the excellent report Fit For Nothing?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I believe that the Government's policies are co-ordinated but I take note of the points made by my noble friend. Young people who have been in care are given special treatment for benefit purposes. A young person who is in care immediately before his or her 16th birthday and who is living away from home may receive income support for up to 16 weeks in order to find a job or youth training. Discretionary payments made by local authorities to young people leaving care are ignored for income support purposes. Those leaving care and receiving income support are a priority group for community care grants from the social fund.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the Minister have any information about the effectiveness of the youth training schemes for such youngsters? The case for not giving them benefit has rested on the Government's argument that a place on a youth training scheme is available for each young person. Have the Government any information to show whether that is true on a local basis rather than on a nationwide basis? Furthermore, do they have information about the effectiveness of the schemes? Most of the information that one receives shows that while some are extremely good, others are inadequate and would justify refusal on the part of the youngsters concerned.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I believe that many of the schemes are effective and that many provide valuable training. The guarantee of a place can be met in most parts of the country. We believe that young people between the ages of 16 and 17 should stay in full-time education, seek work or undertake youth training. We 4 do not believe that the option of claiming benefit should be available to them without seeking work or training.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, the noble Lord says "most". What about those not covered by "most"? The word "most" implies that for some, matters are not satisfactory.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, as I said, we hope that most young people will be found a youth training place and that the TECs will make sure that those having difficulties will eventually find a place. If they are unable to find such a place and if they are suffering severe hardship, then benefit will be available.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that according to the excellent report to which the noble Baroness, Lady Faithfull, referred, almost 30 per cent. of young people who applied for severe hardship allowance last year were denied it? Will he not look again at the operation of the benefit rules which seem to be operated in a very subjective way by a number of DSS officials to ensure that young people receive suitable support where it is required?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, obviously, not every claim of severe hardship will be met. The noble Baroness mentioned that 30 per cent. had had their applications refused. But 70 per cent. were successful in their applications. Claims are looked at sympathetically by expert officers in the severe hardship unit of my department.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, will the noble Lord accept that 30 per cent. is a high figure and that a number of that 30 per cent. may well be sleeping on the streets?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, as I said, those suffering from severe hardship will receive income support. Those matters are looked at sympathetically by officers from my department.

§ Lord Milverton
My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government not give a firmer assurance as regards the Question asked by my noble friend Lady Faithfull and referred to in the other supplementary questions?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, as we have said on many occasions, we shall continue to monitor policy on this issue. We are awaiting independent research carried out by MORI; we shall consider that when it is received.

§ Lord Murray of Epping Forest
My Lords, a great many 16 and 17 year-olds are denied income support. Given that income support is meant to provide for basic subsistence needs, will the Minister inform us of the objective research upon which the Government based their decision that the needs of a young person aged 17 who is living independently are smaller than those of a person aged 20 or 25 who is living independently? What research has been carried out which demonstrates the need for that discrimination?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, there is no evidence that people cannot survive on income support levels. A 5 young person who has to live away from home on income support will receive income support at the 18 to 24 year-old rate.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, is the review conducted by MORI concerned only with supplementary benefit or is it also concerned with housing, education and training? Will it be an overall co-ordinated report or merely a report for one department?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, my noble friend will know that my honourable friend Mrs. Shephard announced last year that research will be conducted by MORI into the position of 16 and 17 year-olds. The research will have two main elements. First, it will look at a representative sample of some 500 successful and unsuccessful applications 'for income support under the severe hardship provisions. Secondly, it will collect detailed qualitative data on young people's experience of the benefit system.