Speed Limits: Enforcement (Hansard, 9 December 1991)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, the enforcement of road traffic law, including speed limits, is an operational matter for 457 chief officers of police. The Road Traffic Act 1991 contains provisions to facilitate the use of unmanned automatic devices to detect breaches of speed limits.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that these days speed limits are simply a farce? Is he further aware that the law is broken thousands of times each day? In those circumstances, will he give the average monthly number of prosecutions for speeding and say whether the Home Office or any other authority keeps records of accidents caused by speeding?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I do not believe that the limits are a farce. Whether people abide by the limits is another matter. I cannot tell the noble Lord the number of people who have been prosecuted, but I can tell him that the latest available figures for road casualties are for 1990. They show that 5,217 people were killed; 60,441 were seriously injured; and 275,483 people were slightly injured. The aim of the Government is to reduce casualties on the roads by one third by the year 2000.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does the Minister agree, bearing in mind police resources are stretched because there is such an enormous amount of paper work and also because of the inexorable rise in criminal activity, that it is becoming increasingly difficult for ordinary policemen to do traffic enforcement work? In those circumstances, does he not agree that it would be wise to consider at least the formation of a separate traffic police force?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, at the moment that is not part of our thinking. The present arrangements under which some officers specialise in but are not restricted entirely to traffic duties provide the flexibility which is crucial to the effective and efficient use of police resources as a whole. Resources are stretched; they always will be. I remind the noble Lord that an extra 15,793 police officers have been put in post since 1979. It is up to each chief constable to decide how best to use his police officers.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether there is a 30 mile an hour speed limit in London?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, there is a 30 mile an hour speed limit wherever that limit operates. My experience is that the limit is supposed to operate in London.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, would it not be fairer to admit that the 30 mile an hour speed limit in London and in most other built up areas is not being policed at all?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, it is being policed, as some of your Lordships have doubtless discovered. However, it is impossible to police every single vehicle which travels, in the same way that it is impossible to police every single potential criminal. The police do their best.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that it would be regarded as an achievement to reach the speed of 15 miles an hour in London?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that may be the experience of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington; but other noble Lords may be surprised and may have different experience.

The Viscount of Falkland
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that there is no greater deterrent than seeing a police car—for example, at the side of a motorway? Does he further agree that there seem to be fewer police cars in evidence at the side of motorways in a stationary position? Is there any reason for that?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, they are moving after other cars.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, thinking back to the war, would it not be a deterrent to have police cars with dummy policemen inside them? That may act as a deterrent.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that is a novel idea. I did not know that that was done during the war, and I fancy that that idea may not meet with your Lordships' approval.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I hope that the Government are not going to be reduced to using dummy policemen in dummy police cars in order to try to enforce a law on the statute book. Is the noble Earl aware that on this side of the House we take the view that if there is a law, it should be enforced? Is he further aware that in view of recent Sunday trading, the same zeal for law enforcement is not always apparent on the other side of the House? The noble Earl refers to certain measures which may be introduced in the course of next year, one of which is fixed cameras. Will he tell the House how much money is to be allocated for the introduction of fixed cameras; how many there are to be; and where they will be placed?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Richard, was not born yesterday, was he? If I were to tell him where all the cameras are to be, he will make sure that he operates within the speed limit wherever there are cameras. The noble Lord must wait and see how many cameras there will be. A certain amount of testing must take place before the cameras are installed. I assure the noble Lord that they will be extremely effective, and I suggest that he takes great care to abide by the law.
It was encouraging to hear the noble Lord say that noble Lords on his side of the House are so keen to abide by the law. He mentioned Sunday trading—and I do not know what that has to do with speeding. However, I remind the noble Lord that some of his supporters did not abide by the law as they should have done with regard to the community charge.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the increased number of policemen to which he referred is extremely welcome? 459 That is the crucial factor if anything is to be done about speeding. I was going to make the point, which the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland. has made, that nothing slows traffic down more than the sight of a police car at the side of a motorway or, indeed, on any road. Should not the Government look at that matter?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington, is right. Nothing slows people down more than the sight of a police car. I believe that it slows them down whether or not the police car is moving. However, it is not a matter for the Government to consider. The chief constable must decide how to deploy his forces. About 8 per cent. of the policemen in each force are deployed regularly on traffic duties. Other police officers are also involved in traffic duties.