Baltic States: Western Assistance (Hansard, 9 December 1991)

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we have pressed the Soviet and Russian Governments to establish as soon as possible a timetable for the withdrawal of Soviet troops from the Baltic states. On economic co-operation, we are backing projects in the Baltic states through the Know How Fund, and have offered technical assistance to the Baltic central banks as the Baltic states prepare to introduce their own currencies.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords. I thank the noble Earl for that reply. Will he give the House any information on the current size of the Russian garrisons? Will he tell us how many have been withdrawn since August? Is he able to say anything about an independent currency unit for the Baltic states?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I cannot give the figures of the number of Soviet troops in the Baltic States. However, it is pleasing to be able to report to the House that the withdrawal of interior ministry troops—that is, the Black Berets—has started, and it is hoped that that will be completed by the end of the year. We continue to press the Soviet and Russian authorities to have a firm timetable for the withdrawal of other troops. With regard to the currency, we have offered technical assistance to the Baltic states but that is a matter for them.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, in the light of this morning's newspapers, which seem to cast doubt on the existence of the Soviet Union, will my noble friend say how much of his original Answer needs amendment?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I assure my noble and learned friend that it was amended this morning to take account of the recent events in the Soviet 460 Union. I am sure that I have the support of my noble and learned friend when I say that we need to approach every responsible authority in the Soviet Union, Russia and other republics in trying to solve problems such as this. That is what we are doing.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lotus, in view of the highly critical and potentially dangerous developing scene in what used to be called the Soviet Union, does the noble Earl not agree that the future of those three countries, as well as the other republics in the former Soviet Union, depends upon a settlement being reached between Mr. Gorbachev and Mr. Yeltsin and the republics which are not party to the Slavonic union which is now apparently being agreed upon? Can the noble Earl say what action Her Majesty's Government are taking either through the Community or the United Nations to seek to stabilise the position and conduct talks with Mr. Yeltsin and Mr. Gorbachev?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition raises an important point. I am sure that he will agree that it would be wrong for me to make any further comment when the situation is unclear and our Prime Ministers and Foreign Secretaries are already meeting not only to discuss the future of Europe but doubtless also to discuss this matter.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the international conference to be held in London on 23rd and 24th January with the presence of leading figures, including President Landsbergis, from the Baltic states? Is the Foreign Office able to give assistance to ensure the success of that conference which is examining the whole future of the Baltic states, both economically and politically?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am not sure from that question whether the noble Lord wants taxpayers' money to be spent on the subject.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, in the light of the disintegration of the Soviet Union, to which reference has already been made, and in the light of the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, is it not a matter of urgency that a security organisation be created covering eastern and central Europe and the Baltic states to stabilise the position so far as that is possible?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we want to stabilise the position and that is why we offered help in the way that we did. It is not for us to impose solutions on others.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, when considering these matters with his colleagues in the European Economic Community, will the noble Earl bear in mind that the peoples of those three countries may not wish to come under the economic domination of Brussels?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, indeed they may not.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, bearing in mind that the Ukraine, Russia and Byelorussia are 461 now independent states, representing around 70 per cent. of the old Soviet Union population and with their economic and military power, is it not foolish for Her Majesty's Government to warn or threaten those states regarding their views on the Baltic states? Further, is there not enough turbulence in the old Soviet Union without the Government becoming involved in their inter-state differences?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, it is right that we should express our views. We do not meddle in the internal affairs of other countries. However, where matters are important on which we hold views, it is right that we should express them. We offered technical help and Know How Fund money to both sides to make the situation better, not worse.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that many of the countries in central Europe and the Baltic states made it clear that their main objective is to join the European Community? That contradicts what was said by the noble Lord earlier.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, that may be the case but it is slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that the Baltic states are entitled to feel a degree of relief at the apparently irretrievable collapse of the centre in the former Soviet Union? Is he aware also that his Answer is slightly out of date? He said that he approached the Russian Government regarding the withdrawal of troops; and he should have said the Russian, Ukrainian and Byelorussian Governments.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I said the Soviet and Russian Governments, and that is correct at the moment.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government working closely with the Scandinavian countries in everything concerning the three Baltic states?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we certainly keep in touch with all our friends, including the Scandinavians, on the matter.