Supercomputing Centres (Hansard, 15 October 1990)

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the general policy is at least to maintain the current overall level of supercomputing services. The Computer Board is currently in discussion with the University of London about new arrangements for securing an efficient and cost effective contribution to those services from the University of London Computer Centre.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. Is he aware what a pleasure it is for all noble Lords to see the noble Lord answering a Question for the first time from the Government Front Bench? We all wish him well.
I must declare an interest as a teacher at the University of London. Is it the case that the supercomputer centre at the University of London is in danger at the present time? It certainly costs more than other supercomputer centres, and I believe for very good reason. Pressure is being put on it to cut costs in a way which it may not be able to meet. Can the Minister say whether we might lose that computer centre? Is there any danger that that centre might be lost?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Peston, for his kind wishes.
Recent studies have clearly demonstrated that the unit costs provision in the University of London Computer Centre is substantially higher than at Manchester University and at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Centres. The board and the department would be rightly criticised if they took no steps to bring the costs in line. Much depends on the University of London's response to the current negotiations. We understand that a decision is to be taken by the court on 17th October.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, perhaps it is rather unfair to ask the Minister to answer a maiden Question of a very technical kind. However, is he aware that the services rendered by the supercomputer centres are totally different? Moreover, the London centre provides a service which is of the greatest value to the users. Is the Minister also aware that a comparable service is not provided on a similar scale by other centres? I do not know whether the Minister can say something about the Computer Board which is a servant of the department. Can he say how the board arrived at its decision without looking at the vast range of services provided by the London Computer Centre?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I recognise the point made by the noble Lord. Whatever changes may be necessary in the geographical location of provision of service, the intention would be at least to maintain the existing level of service nationally.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that Japan has 40 supercomputer centres; the United States has 25; Germany has nine; and that France and Germany have an academic computing power which is almost double that of Britain? Therefore, does he accept that this is not the right moment to reduce the services of one of our few computing centres? We do not want its work to be reduced but to be increased.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for those figures from other countries. I was not aware of them. Where efficiency reviews have been undertaken which affect the spending of public money, we cannot ignore the findings if it is shown that savings can be found. I repeat that there is no intention of reducing the provision. However, there is a requirement to make provision more cost-effective at the ULCC.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the estimated expenditure on supercomputers for this year, and what is predicted for the future? Will the Minister refer to the decisions of the Computer Board and discover how it arrived at its decision? It is very difficult to make effective comparisons between one supercomputer and another. Does the Minister not agree that the London Computer Centre is of particular importance to engineering and industry? The report from industry which has been received by the department suggests that it provides an essential service.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will appreciate that I am rather 584 new to the department. My information is that the other two centres are more cost-effective by a factor of two.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, does the noble Lord not agree that unit costs are always going to be higher in London than in the provinces?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the figure I have given has already taken account of London weighting.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, has the advice given by a representative of Shell been taken into account? Shell carried out a study and it decided that the London centre was very well run.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I have seen press comment to that effect. I do not think I can defend from the Dispatch Box anything that I have seen in the press.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, but is it true?