Channel Tunnel: Safety (Hansard, 29 June 1990)

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the Channel Tunnel Safety Authority is an independent Anglo-French body set up under the Treaty of Canterbury. It gives advice on all aspects of tunnel safety to the intergovernmental commission which supervises tunnel construction and operation on behalf of the two governments. It also has a duty under the treaty to ensure that safety measures and practices comply with all appropriate national and international laws.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, is the Minister aware that as part of the build-up of safety provisions it is necessary to consider the information and communication system in the light of the psychological and human factors involved, and that that work seems so far not to have been done? There is a suspicion that that is because the two operating companies are in dispute as to which will pay for the work. Is it not time that the Government banged some heads together instead of standing back from the situation as was apparent from the Minister's Answer to my Question?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, under the concession agreement with the two governments, Eurotunnel is required to submit all its designs and operating rules for approval by the intergovernmental commission. The safety authority vets all aspects of safety and advises the commission.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, the Minister began his remarks by resting on the fact that an independent authority is concerned with the tunnel. The Government and people of this country do not want to be other than deeply involved in safety matters. Does the Minister recall a Statement made by the Government earlier this year to the effect that the Health and Safety Executive had been invited to review safety procedures? How far has that review gone? How far is it intended to go? Will the Minister bear in mind that the people of this country are not just concerned with safety as the tunnel is being built, but they will be deeply interested in what the Government have in mind to ensure that once the tunnel is built, it is safe for travellers?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the safety authority is composed of members from this country and France, and includes members of the Health and Safety Executive, so it has a direct input into the safety authority. That is about as far as one need go at the moment.

§ Lord McGregor of Durris
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the results of tests carried out 1816 with the approval of the safety authority have not been published; and that Eurotunnel has declined to make them public? Does the Minister agree that to secure public confidence it is desirable that the public should participate in discussions on safety, and that they can do so only on the basis of the evidence of the tests?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I have already indicated to the House that Eurotunnel has to put forward all its designs to the intergovernmental commission. The safety authority published its first annual report last year, which it was not required to do by statute; and it will publish another later this year. Details of its major decisions, on non-segregation in particular, were also published. I do not believe that the safety authority can be accused of trying to hide behind any form of obscurity.

§ Viscount Cross
My Lords, do Her Majesty's Government consider it safe for the public to travel in the cross-Channel trains while sitting in their cars in view of the fact that in this country many hundreds of cars catch fire due to self-ignition, electrical faults, overheating and fuel leaks? That often happens when the vehicle is stationary and after the ignition has been switched off. The car could be on the cross-Channel train and the train could be in the tunnel and under the sea.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, at the end of 1989 the intergovernmental commission announced its decision that Eurotunnel could continue to develop its transport system on the practice of non-segregation for cars and coaches, to which my noble friend alluded. Eurotunnel will have to meet a number of stringent safety requirements on, for example, fire detection and extinction, fire-proof barriers, staffing levels and emergency procedures.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, further to the question from my noble friend and the Minister's reply, I should like to ask this question. Is he aware that there was no suggestion that the safety authority was withholding information, but that it had passed the information to Eurotunnel which was now refusing to release it to the general public? To revert to my earlier point on the psychological and human aspects of safety design, will the Minister undertake to investigate the situation in order to discover whether work is going on, and, if so, how far it has reached and when it is likely to be completed? It is vital that that work is done in the early stages before the work on the design of trains and escape routes is finished.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I shall read carefully and take careful note of what the noble Lord has said. I undertake to write to him if I discover anything. I emphasise that the intergovernmental commission is responsible for the design and operating rules; and it is right to say that it is a responsible body which is advised by the safety authority. I believe that it covers all the details on which the noble Lord has expressed concern.