Housing: Government Policy (Hansard, 18 June 1990)

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the Government's policies seek to satisfy people's housing needs by increasing consumer choice and good housekeeping 600 in the use of public money. The voluntary housing sector has a crucial role to play. In recognition of that fact resources for its development will increase from some £938 million in 1989–90 to £1.7 billion in 1992–93.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Will he confirm that he is aware of the Government's stated policy of almost removing local authorities from the house building programme? His answer to me on the last occasion was that they already had enough stock. With reference to the voluntary sector, is he aware that this year, because of financial problems, the housing associations in conjunction with the building people have had to cut their programme from 20,000 to 10,000? Does he consider that that is progress or progress in reverse? Does he expect that that will solve the housing problem?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am aware of the problem referred to by the noble Lord. But it is important to understand the context of the problem. It is owing to success. The success resides in the impressive speed of take-up which, with the new financial system under the Housing Corporation, has proceeded at a far greater pace than we ever expected. Thus, there is now a slight slowing down because there was already an increase in the number of houses going up. If one were to look at a graph one would find that as of today there are more housing starts than were expected because of the success of the take-up.

§ Lord Northfield
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that last week Sir Christopher Benson, chairman of the Housing Corporation, had to apologise to his constituent members—namely, the housing associations—because money would be drying up towards the end of this year and a lot of new starts could not now take place? Have the Government ruled out completely bringing forward some of the money planned for next year into the latter part of this year so that the momentum can be kept up?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, as I said earlier to the noble Lord, Lord Dean, what happened under the introduction of the new system was that it went too fast at the start. The suggestion of the noble Lord is that even more money should be brought into the system. I suggest that my first Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Dean, pointing out that expenditure would rise from some £938 million to £1–7 billion between now and 1992–93 shows the level of the Government's commitment.

§ Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran
My Lords, to what extent do the figures given by the Minister apply to Wales? I ask the question because a couple of years ago I had the honour of being the honorary president of Shelter under the UK chairmanship of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Scarman. During that period there was considerable improvement in overcoming some of the housing difficulties in Wales.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, regrettably, I do not have a separate breakdown of the figures for Wales. However, I shall write to the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is there not cause for shame throughout the country when, in the large cities, including London, tens of thousands of our fellow citizens are sleeping rough and have no homes? Should not a special endeavour now be made through discussions with the large local authorities to concentrate on providing homes for those who are sleeping rough?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I draw the noble Lord's attention to the initiative of some £250 million announced by the Government several months ago. I draw his attention also to the fact that the Government recognise that the problem exists.

§ Lord Northfield
My Lords, the Minister's reply to my question appeared to hint that in some way my suggestion that money be brought forward from next year to this year in order to sustain momentum would cause damage. Now that the associations are able to mount a substantial programme that should not be interrupted, would it not be sensible to ensure that some of the money is brought into use at an earlier stage?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, it is important to remember that the Housing Corporation is still reviewing its position. As regards such bodies, it is not for the Government constantly to initiate direct action.

Lout Stallard
My Lords, are the Government aware that it is estimated that there are 50,000 homeless people in London? Yet their response is to provide 3,000 temporary homes to cope with the problem. Does the Minister agree that the problem lies in the serious shortage of housing at affordable rents and that during 11 years of this Administration the problem has become increasingly worse? There has been no response from the Government. Can the Minister now say whether they have any plans to tackle the problem?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, an example, which reflects part of the problem referred to in the Question, is that as a result of the change the completion of schemes in the voluntary sector has dropped from approximately four years to two years. That must be a change for the good. However, the change has brought problems with it.

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House how many dwellings above shops throughout the country have been empty for years? What steps are the Government taking to ensure that trey are re-occupied and used as dwellings?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I do not have a specific figure for the number of dwellings above shops. However, I am sure that if my noble friend wishes to table a Question I can endeavour to find a satisfactory Answer.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, in response to an earlier question the Minister referred to government initiatives in respect of the homeless who are among those in need of rehousing. Does he 602 acknowledge that what is needed is not short-term accommodation, however basic, but housing into which those people in short-term accommodation can be moved? Does he agree that changes are also required in the social security benefits system to enable young people in particular to have funds for their rent in advance when they first find housing and so avoid the need to borrow?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I have answered various Questions on the subject from various angles and at various times since I had the honour of accepting the position which I hold. The noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, has made those points previously; no doubt he will make them again. The fact is that the Government have responded and have taken initiatives. The hope is to provide a better level of results. That, in part, has caused some of the problems referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Dean, at the beginning of his Question.

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, will the Minister help the House to understand the scale of the problem by providing some numbers? Will he confirm that the number of housing starts during the past year has collapsed, falling by about 40 per cent?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the figure for completions in 1989—

Noble Lords
Starts!

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the question asked by the noble Lord is slightly wide of that on the Order Paper. The figure for completions in 1989 that I have with me, which I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Donoughue, would prefer to that which I do not have, is 166,000.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, in his answers the Minister has given the impression that the Government's house building programme, certainly in the voluntary sector, has been a success. Only a few months ago it was expected that the Government would start to build 20,000 houses. That figure has now been reduced to 10,000. As my noble friend Lord Northfield said, the housing associations are asking for more than £400 million of next year's money to be brought forward in order to keep up the momentum of the original programme. Bearing in mind the present high interest charges that must be paid for voluntary sector housing, does not that request make sense? Will the Government reverse their present policy to one that makes sense?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I remain uncertain about whether the noble Lord, Lord Dean, has appreciated the fact that although there has been a reduction in the number of starts this year there was an increase above the level anticipated for the past year.