Crèche Facilities for Employees (Hansard, 14 February 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, the Government take every opportunity to encourage employers to adopt family friendly recruitment and retention policies including, where appropriate, assistance with child care. A number of practical initiatives to improve the range and quality of child care provisions available to working parents have been taken through the ministerial group on women's issues.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply, although I shall have to read it in Hansard tomorrow to find out what it means. What proposals have the Government in mind, in view of their policy to encourage married women back to work, to bring about the provision of a more comprehensive nursery facility for the children of working mothers? Does he not agree that while the initiative of some employers —very few, but some —to make provisions available is welcome, that in itself is not enough? Does he not further agree that if we are to make comprehensive provision for all children who need the services, it will be necessary for the Government to make available facilities and finance to encourage both employers and local authorities to provide those services?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Baroness did not understand my original Answer. I said that we hope that more employers will have family friendly policies towards their employees. More specifically, the Government are aware of the great concern of many women on this issue. The ministerial group on women's issues has issued a five point initiative. All government training programmes and business initiatives are open to women and we are also supporting the nationwide Back to the Future series of conferences for women returners which are being held in conjunction with the BBC and the Industrial Society.
We do not believe that the future is bleak. As the noble Baroness said, many employers have good practices, and we are encouraging them to continue those and to be an example to other employers.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, in view of the Minister's reply, will he say whether the Government will reconsider their attitude to the European directive on parental leave?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we have not yet been convinced of the need to have a European directive on that issue.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, can I call the Minister's attention to the text of the Question which says nothing at all about working mothers but talks about crèche facilities for employees? Are we to understand that the child labour laws are being abolished?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that helpful comment. I think he knows as well as I what the Question is trying to get at.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in those instances where employees provide crèche facilities for their female employees, the Inland Revenue nevertheless assesses those employees on a benefit which they receive in that way? Does the noble Lord agree that if there is to be a further incentive for the provision and taking advantage of crèche facilities, the tax imposition should be removed?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the noble Lord must know perfectly well that at this time of the year, when we are approaching the Budget, it would be quite wrong of me to speculate on anything which the Chancellor of the Exchequer might have in mind.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us where the family friendly crèches are for employees of Her Majesty's Government?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the Government as an employer have a very good record on that sort of provision. They provide flexible working practices to allow women to be able to organise how they wish to work. Some Government departments have schemes for the holidays. Indeed, there is one in central London which is based at the Treasury. Generally speaking, the Civil Service is seen as a good leader and a good example to other employers. However, we shall obviously seek to do more.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does not the noble Lord agree that the Question was correct in saying "employees" in that there are a few fathers who have to look after children? In addition, the noble Lord says that the Government are encouraging employers to provide crèches. Therefore, will he bear in mind —he must always bear it in mind because the Government are so enthusiastic about the small employer —that the small employer is in no position to provide a crèche and it would be quite ridiculous for him to do so? It might be used only once every four years. What does he propose to do about that?
While I am on my feet, what does the noble Lord propose to do about the provision of facilities —which in many ways is much more important from the angle of getting women into 1375 employement —over the school holidays, which go on until the youngsters are 16?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the point the noble Baroness makes about small firms is absolutely valid. What we are doing is encouraging small employers in specific areas to club together to provide the kinds of facilities that single large firms can supply themselves. The same basic principle applies for school holidays. One of the initiatives we have taken is to write to school governors to remind them that they have the powers to provide school premises out of school hours precisely for that sort of care.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, perhaps I may come back on the noble Lord's reply to my European directive question. If the Government do not believe in European directives, do they believe in parental leave? What are they doing to encourage employers to adopt parental leave systems themselves?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we encourage many flexible working practices and we encourage maternal leave. I think the record in this country is not at all bad.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, the Minister constantly uses the word "encouragement". Does he mean that the Government will actively assist with cash?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, there is a great deal of good practice at the moment so there is no need to assist with cash. However, the Department of Health is making available £2 million for pilot studies on how existing government resources can be more clearly focused.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, in noting the noble Lord's reference to not anticipating his right honourable friend's Budget Statement, may we have an undertaking from him that he will convey to the Chancellor of the Exchequer the manifest injustice and indeed hardship endured by women who desire to take advantage of the crèche facilities, by being taxed in respect of them?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I cannot agree with the words of the noble Lord. I am not sure that his Back-Benchers agree with him either.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, will the Minister ask the Government to encourage the DES to be family friendly and produce some finance so that LEA employees can use crèche facilities in schools?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, it must be up to the individual LEAs to decide exactly how they will provide for their employees.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, the Minister said that he cannot anticipate what the Chancellor of the Exchequer may be saying shortly. However, I wonder whether he saw the report concerning one of his former colleagues, Edwina Currie, who was speaking on this matter some weeks ago. She is reported to 1376 have said, with reference to the National Health Service, that it employs half a million nurses and there are hardly any crèches. Can the Minister tell the House what the Government propose to do in order to provide crèche facilities for their own employees?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I think the noble Baroness refers to the employees of the National Health Service. It must be up to the National Health Service to decide how best to deal with the needs of its own employees.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, can the Minister tell us what provision will be made for the children of civil servants?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I have already answered that question.