§ 3.10 p.m.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, I rise to ask for the support of the House in challenging a preliminary decision of the Leader of the House, who turned down a request this morning for a Statement to be made on the White Paper on community care. This Question has been put down because in today's edition of The Times there is an article which states that the White Paper on community care will be published this Thursday after the House has prorogued and that it will be followed by a Bill which is to be introduced next Wednesday. Obviously this would give the House—and, indeed, the country —no opportunity to debate the White Paper before the Bill is presented. We should also bear in mind the fact that no Green Paper has been produced on the subject.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, it is the case that the noble Baroness informed me this morning that she would like to ask a Private Notice Question on the matter which she has just outlined and that I said I felt this was not of sufficient urgency to justify an immediate reply.
The situation we are in is that we have known since 12th July, when my noble friend Lord Henley repeated a Statement in this House on community care, that the Government intended to publish a White Paper on the subject in the autumn. The position we are in at present is that the Secretary of State has not announced that he is publishing the White Paper.
I must say to the noble Baroness that, although I understand her interest in the matter, I really do not think that this is an occasion for a Private Notice Question.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, I shall bear in mind what the noble Lord the Leader of the House has just said. However, since this White Paper has not been published and since Parliament prorogues on Thursday, what are we to assume from his reply? Are we to assume that the White Paper will be published some time after the loyal Address? If that is to be the case, can he give us a guarantee that there will be an opportunity for consultation on the White Paper before a Bill is presented to the House? Further, will there be opportunity for a debate in this Chamber, which is customary procedure after a White Paper is published, or are we suddenly to receive a Bill following the publication of a White Paper which no one has had any opportunity of considering? Will the noble Lord kindly clarify the issue?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I suggest that the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, is in exactly the same position as all Members of the House; namely, that we all know the publication of a White Paper is intended by the Government during the autumn, but the 1227 Secretary of State has not, as yet, announced that he is about to publish the document.
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, can the noble Lord use his offices with his right honourable friend to suggest to him that, if it is his intention to publish a White Paper, then he should do so tomorrow before the House rises so that there can be an opportunity for some discussion before such matters are introduced into a Bill next Wednesday—if that is also the intention?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I understand the interest of the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, in the matter. However, I think that we are now beginning to stray into general discussion on the question of the forthcoming White Paper. We know that it is forthcoming because the Government have promised that a White Paper will be published in the autumn. If I may say so, the correct action to take would be to await an announcement by the Secretary of State that he is about to publish the document.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, is the noble Lord the Leader of the House saying that the statement in The Times is not correct? Is that the position? No doubt he has seen the statement in question.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I never comment on reports which appear in newspapers.