Deaf Drivers: EC Directive (Hansard, 17 May 1989)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, the European Commission proposal for a second directive on driver licensing will not affect existing drivers. Deaf licence holders will retain their existing entitlement. The arrangements envisaged by the Commission would apply only to new drivers. They would reduce the thresholds for driving entitlement. Drivers of minibuses with more than eight passenger seats and drivers of light goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes would need to take a second test and meet vocational medical standards. The Government have already made clear their opposition to this. We can see no reason why vehicles in those categories should not continue to be driven by deaf people.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. Is he aware that the campaign in this country on behalf of deaf drivers was won in the early 1980s at the time of the International Year for Disabled People when examination of the figures proved that deaf people do not have more road accidents than others? Do we now have to launch another campaign?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, yes. I am afraid that we have to launch such a campaign to try to persuade the EC that the type of proposals that it is bringing forward not just with regard to deaf drivers but also affecting voluntary drivers of minibuses and light goods vehicles are completely unnecessary and damaging to many voluntary causes in this country.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does the Minister agree that this is yet another example of the European Community interfering in matters over which it should have no competence? Will the Minister assure the House that, on this occasion anyway, even one vote will be able to prevent that legislation being brought into this country against the will apparently not only of Her Majesty's Government but just about everyone else here?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I agree that not all the proposals that emanate from the European Commission are necessarily welcome in this country. If this proposal goes forward as planned, it would be by qualified majority vote and we could be overruled. We shall continue to press hard for a change in the directive.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, in those circumstances, would the Minister think it right that the Government should consider repealing the Single European Act?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, possibly not just for this case.

§ Lord Mulley
My Lords, will the Minister remind the Commission that on a previous occasion it proposed that a prerequisite for a driving test should be a psychological examination? At my suggestion it was asked to compare the number of people in the countries concerned who would be liable for tests and the number of qualified psychologists who might 1174 be available. When those numbers were put together we heard no more of the proposal.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is an interesting suggestion. It is one that I shall pass on for discussion in Brussels.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, am I not correct in believing that the proposed directive was the subject of a debate in the other place on 11th April, when there was all-party support for negotiations to remove stricter licensing of minibuses, especially in view of the 60,000 minibuses used in the private sector and in the interests of handicapped and disabled people? Do the Government still insist on both those changes being made to the proposed directive? When is the directive likely to be discussed?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we shall continue to press as hard as we can for a change in the proposed directive. We expect that negotiations will take at least 12 months and possibly much longer, but we shall continue to work for a change.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my noble friend and his right honourable friend explain to the Community that the tendency to intervene in matters of purely domestic interest undermines the goodwill which people in this country originally showed towards the Community?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the directive is a prime example of what my noble friend is talking about. It would be immensely damaging to many voluntary organisations which rely on volunteer drivers who would be extremely unlikely, if they were forced to take a vocational driving test, either to be able to afford to do so or to spend the time necessary to do so. It is completely unnecessary because there is absolutely no evidence that there is any more danger from those people driving minibuses than if they were driving cars.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, as my noble friend says, this directive is unfortunately subject to a qualified majority vote. It is therefore open to Her Majesty's Government to challenge the legality of the decision, for reasons given by noble Lords on all sides of the House, including the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, before the court in Luxembourg. Is he aware that that, alas, is the only effective redress left open to the Government?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, fortunately we have not yet reached that stage. As I said earlier, negotiations are expected to take at least another 12 months. We shall obviously bear carefully in mind what my noble friend has said.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, are we not more likely to obtain a sensible and responsible hearing when this country makes sensible recommendations, as on this point, if we occasionally give way on some major proposal such as joining the EMS?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that question is a little wide of the scope of the Question on the Order Paper. If I were to answer about the EMS, as I have done on many occasions, my answer would be the same as the one that I have previously given.

§ Lord Rugby
My Lords, does the legislation have something to do with the fact that on the Continent the motor horn is a more important piece of motoring equipment than in this country?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that may well be the case, but the proposed directive goes a great deal further than deaf drivers. It would prohibit anyone not holding a vocational driving licence from driving a minibus with more than eight seats.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, in these negotiations—I wish the Government well—can it be pointed out that a radio in a vehicle playing loud pop music renders the driver as incapable of hearing sounds outside that vehicle as if he were deaf?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we shall certainly endeavour to use that argument. But, as we have said, we have absolutely no evidence to suppose that deafness leads to any diminution in driving skills.