Hospital Waiting Lists (Hansard, 2 May 1989)

HL Deb 02 May 1989 vol 507 cc7-9 7

§ 2.51 p.m.

§ Lord Ennals asked Her Majesty's Government:

§ What are the latest figures of the length of hospital waiting lists, and what are the comparable figures for 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1987.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the latest figures show that at 30th September 1988 there were 691,000 people waiting for admission to hospital. Comparable figures for the four preceding years were 683,000, 661,000, 682,000 and 661,000, respectively.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his reply. Is he aware that the appalling statistics he has listed—they are worse this year than for any of the previous years—relate to patients who are waiting for treatment as a direct result of the 8 underfunding of the National Health Service at a time when the Government claim that the economy is strong? Is he aware that every conference of health service workers, whether management, nurses or doctors, which has considered the Government's discredited proposals, recognises that nothing in those proposals will improve the waiting lists? And waiting lists are very much concerned with people.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, we accept that the figures are marginally higher than the previous figures. However, as the noble Lord knows, they are considerably better than they were in 1979 when they reached a highest ever peak of 752,000.I think I should also say that accusations that the Government are under-funding the National Health Service are unfair. We have increased funding in real terms by 37 per cent. since 1979. I should also say that the number of day patients treated has also gone up dramatically since 1979.

§ Lord Ferrier
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether that number includes individuals who have been offered beds but have not taken them up?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, we do not include in the figures for waiting lists what are referred to as self-deferred cases; nor have we included them in the past.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that one contribution which would help to resolve this extremely difficult problem, about which I am sure noble Lords from all sides of the House are very much concerned—namely, the lengthy waiting lists of people going into hospital—is to build more hospitals? Is it not possible for some of the land owned by the National Health Service and by local hospitals to be used for constructing more wards in order to try to relieve the awful burden on waiting lists?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord knows that this Government are engaged in the biggest hospital building programme since the beginning of the National Health Service. As regards the sale of surplus land, I believe that the noble Lord has tabled a Question on this subject to be discussed in a couple of weeks' time. I shall willingly answer it then.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, does the noble Lord accept that waiting lists now seem to be averaging 680,000 a year? The number is far higher than the average experienced by the previous administration, which after all was 10 years ago. Will he now say what in the White Paper will help to reduce this problem of pain for such a large number of people?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the average might be marginally higher than under the administration to which the noble Lord refers. However, as he well knows, and as I think my noble friend Lady Trumpington told him two or three years ago, under every single Labour government since the last war the figures have gone up and under every single Conservative government they have come down. As regards the White Paper, the noble Lord knows 9 perfectly well that the proposals will increase the ease with which money can move around from one district to another. That will certainly help those patients who are in areas or districts which admittedly have rather long waiting lists at the moment.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, my Question was about patients and not about money. Does the noble Lord not accept that it was about patients getting into operating theatres?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord knows that the White Paper contains proposals designed so that money follows patients. If money follows patients it makes it easier for them to go where there are not waiting lists.