CFC Gases and Refrigerators (Hansard, 22 March 1989)

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, all domestic and commercial refrigerators and freezers currently 686 available use CFC gases, both as a coolant and in their insulation foam. Many commercial refrigerators and freezers now use HCF22, which is not controlled by the Montreal Protocol and which causes only 5 per cent. of the damage to the ozone layer caused by the equivalent weight of the more dangerous CFCs. CFC gas can leak from both the cooling system and from the insulation foam during the lifetime of the product, but the major source of emissions takes place once the applicance is scrapped.

§ Lord Hayter
My Lords, how does the man in the street, of whom I am one, know how to dispose of his old refrigerator? Is there a list of municipal councils which can do so without damaging the ozone layer?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, officials from the department are in discussion with industry representatives about this difficult question. The bulk of CFCs in refrigerators is in the insulating foam. No techniques for its safe disposal have yet been developed. The coolant, however, can be recovered and recycled in most cases. That is happening widely in commercial refrigeration. At least one retailer of domestic refrigerators has agreed to remove old applicances and extract the coolant for recycling.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, can the noble Lord give me some idea of how much CFC is contained in a domestic refrigerator? If one could recover it, would this not be a large contribution to avoiding the emission of CFCs? Will he confirm that the larger refrigerators use ammonia, and that its use and the use of polyurethane and other foams could be a major consideration?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am not an expert on ammonia, but I can assure the noble Viscount that one of the features of the Montreal Protocol will be that the incentive for recycling will increase progressively with the reduction in production.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Minister gave a disappointing reply to the noble Lord, Lord Hayter, who asked for guidance about what the man in the street should do when disposing of a refrigerator. Can he give any guidance to those of us who have recently acquired Halon fire extinguishers—which I am told are many times worse than refrigerators in their potential to damage the atmosphere—as to how we are to dispose of them, as we bought them without knowing how dangerous they can be?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I think that we are beginning to drift somewhat wide of the Question on the Order Paper. However, I can assure the noble Lord that certainly with regard 1 o future fire extinguishers, all encouragement will be given for them not to be used in, for example, training. Moreover, research is being carried out to see whether a replacement for those extinguishers can eventually be found.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, since it is established that the damage to the ozone layer by refrigeration gases occurs only when refrigerators are broken up, instead of advising people not to buy new fridges, would it not be more sensible to prohibit the breaking up of old ones? More specifically, can the noble Lord tell us what facilities exist in Britain for the recovery, and possible neutralisation, of those gases? Further, will he put information in the Library as to where those facilities exist in different parts of Britain?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, there are two parts to the problem. As I explained earlier, the incentive for the recovery of refrigerants themselves will increase; the difficulty is with the insulation, to which there is no answer at present. As a result there is a difficulty. That is why we are pushing so hard to eliminate the production of CFCs, because that is the fastest way of tackling the problem.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, further to the noble Lord's question, is it not the case, as I have read in the newspapers, that 2 million refrigerators and freezers are scrapped in this country every year? Is it not further the case that the West German Government reclaim freezers and refrigerators in those circumstances and make them safe? I ask why Her Majesty's Government cannot take similar steps.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am most interested in what the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition said. But as regards insulation, which is half of the problem of CFCs, my understanding is that there is no satisfactory way at present of dealing with that.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hayter, asked a most important question, which was whether the municipalities are being asked to help or co-operate in any way in the matter. The average man in the street today has a refrigerator; indeed, it has now become normal for everyone to have one. Therefore we cannot say, "Discard them; they might be dangerous". Where do we discard them, and how? Further, what are we all talking about?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, in answer to the question posed by the noble Lord, officials from the department will shortly be meeting representatives of local authorities to discuss their role in the efforts to reduce the emissions of CFCs.