HL Deb 26 June 1989 vol 509 cc479-81

2.50 p.m.

Lord Nugent of Guildford asked Her Majesty's Government:

What research is the Ministry of Agriculture undertaking to discover the incidence of salmonella enteritidis in animal feedingstuffs, in particular in Ministry of Agriculture stockpiles of home grown grain, and what incidence of infection has been found.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, to ensure the quality of the raw materials in animal feed, processors of animal protein must register and must submit samples for testing. This year 127 inspections under these arrangements have led to 15 isolations of salmonella, with movement controls imposed in each case. Conditions for the import of processed animal protein have been strengthened. Codes of practice will soon be published covering the monitoring of raw materials used in compound feed, including intervention board stocks. My officials and the industry are working on a survey of feedingstuffs and raw materials of vegetable origin. All isolations of salmonella have to be reported; so far this year 31 have been notified in animal feedingstuffs.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that interesting Answer. It is rather like the Bible story of the non-answer which offers an account of the minor prophets. However, I did not ask about animal protein inspections; I asked about inspections of intervention stocks of cereals. Is my noble friend aware that inevitably cereals are infested with rats and mice, and it is well known that rats and mice are carriers of salmonella? Can she discover what inspections regularly take place in order to check the incidence of salmonella in such stocks? In due course, those stocks will be fed to poultry and other livestock in this country.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the responsiblity for vermin lies with the local authorities. If vermin are found, the onus is on the farmer or the owner of the intervention store to give notice of infestation to MAFF and the local authority in writing. Local authorities are required to make periodic checks, and we have introduced additional statutory measures to control vermin infestation of poultry houses and egg stores. I think that that will do for the moment.

Lord Gallacher

My Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether the Ministry is now satisfied with the drafting of the Processed Animal Protein Order 1989, No. 661, in view of defects alleged about the drafting of the order by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments in its 19th Report?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the order requires that all processors of animal protein should register with MAFF by 13th June, and that they sample their product to ensure its freedom from salmonella before being fed to animals. If there is a mistake in the drafting of the order, I shall write giving details to the noble Lord.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, I do not know whether I have a suspicious nature, but does the noble Baroness really believe that if people find mice in their stores they will rush off and tell the authorities? I should think that that will be the last thing that they will do, but instead will pretend that they have not seen the mice. Is such a provision good enough to ensure that the matter is followed up?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, if the noble Baroness reads the 19 regulations—copies of which have been placed in the Library—she will see that we have taken an enormous amount of trouble to try to put matters in order so that we can reduce the salmonella problem. I was fascinated to hear that when she sees mice she pretends that they are not there. I most certainly do not.

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy

My Lords, what is the Government's view of the desirability of feeding poultry waste to poultry?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the materials have been used for many years, and their use is controlled by legislation in two ways. First, the Waste Food Order 1973 prohibits the feeding to livestock and poultry of waste food unless it has first been processed by means of plant or equipment the operation of which is licensed. Secondly, it is controlled by the Processed Animal Protein Order 1989 as I have just described.

Lord Walston

My Lords, reverting to the original Question tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Nugent, can the noble Baroness give an assurance that she and her department are completely satisfied that there is no risk of the infection of livestock—poultry or otherwise—by the ingestion of grain from intervention stores? Further, can she assure us that any risk which may exist will be caught before the grain is incorporated into feedstuffs?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, of course we are not satisfied and are always aware that there is room for improvement. We have made many new regulations, codes of practice and orders as quickly as possible in order to overcome the various problems. I repeat the fact that we have done a great deal more than any other country to try to clear up the problems of salmonella and vermin.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that her Answer to this part of my Question is far from satisfactory? Will she take back this message to members of the Ministry of Agriculture? It is essential to have regular inspections of intervention grain stores and regular testing in order to ensure that they contain no source of salmonella.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I shall certainly convey that message to my right honourable friend.

Lord Borthwick

My Lords, do we have sufficient control of imports? I am sure that many cases of salmonella arise from imported foodstuffs and animal foodstuffs. I believe that salmonella and diseases of that type live in certain areas—

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Borthwick

My Lords, is it the case that salmonella and other diseases inhabit certain areas, and that in those areas we gradually obtain immunity to the disease? However, in other areas we do not have freedom from the disease. What controls exist in that connection?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, my noble friend's question referred to the first Question, to which I have replied. We are systematically sampling imports of eggs and testing for salmonella infection. The commission has tabled proposals for the control of a wide range of zoonoses, including salmonella, in animals and problems of animal origin. We welcome the proposals, and we shall be working to build on that basis an effective Community-wide solution as soon as possible.