§ 2.47 p.m.
§ Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they are planning further initiatives to resolve the problem of Palestine and to bring peace to the Middle East.
1123§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, the European Council declaration of 27th June sets out our views on the way ahead. We shall continue our efforts to bring the parties together in negotiations leading to a settlement based on "Land for Peace".
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he not agree that now the national unity government of Israel is in total disarray, the situation that exists, with the continued occupation of Palestinian homelands, is extremely serious? Does the Minister not also agree that there has to be a declaration for the return to the Palestinians of their lands and that, if this can only be achieved by the installation of a United Nations peace force, then, in the interests of both the Israelis and the Palestinians, the formation of such a force should be the next move?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I believe that the noble Lord is well aware of the Government's views on the issue in general and the benefits to be had from an international conference. That is set out quite clearly in the EC declaration. As regards disarray, I hope that the noble Lord will be aware that it is not necessarily now the case that the restrictive conditions approved by the Likud Central Committee on 5th July will not be translated into Israeli Government policy. I very much welcome reports that the Israeli Cabinet have reaffirmed Mr. Shamir's election proposals.
§ Lord WeidenfeldMy Lords, does the Minister not agree that since Mr. Shamir's plan is perhaps the only realistic one available now—it was endorsed yesterday by the Israeli Government—it would be counter-productive to continue high level talks between members of Her Majesty's Government and PLO leaders with the credentials of Mr. Bassam Abu Sharif or possibly Chairman Yasser Arafat, in view of the fact that Mr. Sharif has endorsed the recent bus killings on the outskirts of Jerusalem and described them as a natural human response and, not untypically, Chairman Arafat was among the first to congratulate the People's Republic of China upon breaking the students' resistance?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I quite understand the noble Lord's point of view, but the fact is that talking in general does not do damage provided that the talking is designed to try to bring an end to the kind of conflict that we see. As to the meeting on 13th July between Bassam Abu Sharif and my right honourable and learned friend the Foreign Secretary, that was certainly not an upgrading of our relations with the PLO. It was not a full-scale meeting but a short call to reinforce our message that the PLO must stick to the path of moderation.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, we welcome the noble Lord's reaction to yesterday's decision of the Israeli Cabinet to hold elections in the West Bank and Gaza. Is it within his knowledge when these elections will be held? Furthermore, will he also welcome the decision taken by the Israeli Government to reopen the primary schools in the 1124 West Bank, and will he encourage them also to reopen the universities and other educational institutions?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am afraid that I cannot tell the noble Lord when the elections will be, but I shall try to find out. I welcome, as do other noble Lords, reports that Israeli plans for the progressive opening of schools with effect from 22nd July have begun to be put into operation. We welcome the fact that some, or perhaps even all of them, have reopened. I take note of the noble Lord's point about universities as well.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, I do not know whether your Lordships are aware that we are talking of the Middle East, which is the most ancient area of human habitation. For perhaps 5,000 years tribes and their descendants have lived and fought there. There has been one common feature to those 5,000 years. There has never been a moment of peace. Peace has not been the way of living in that part of the world. To try to proceed by stepping in and imposing this unwanted state on Israel and her neighbours is an impertinence. They have the same human right as any other people to continue with their warlike ways.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, we are all too well aware of the difficulties. What the noble Lord says about the history of that part of the world is all too true. However, where we can try to use our influence to bring an end to the difficulties we must continue to do so. That is precisely what the European Council declaration strives to achieve.
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I ought perhaps to say on behalf of your Lordships that we should be a little concerned that we are just coming up to 20 minutes, which is the time the House itself has decided should be allowed for desirably completing Question Time. I would suggest to noble Lords that perhaps the brief, pungent question is more dangerous to government spokesmen than the long, discursive one.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I must agree with the Leader of the House. He is reflecting what the Procedure Committee has recommended many times. Members on all sides of the House are represented on the committee, and this was agreed to.
§ Lord BottomleyMy Lords, I have given way twice and so I am entitled to ask a question. Is the Minister aware that in the year ended December 1988 there were 1,470 Palestinian terrorist attacks, and that this year there have been 412 attacks on Israelis and 123 on Arabs? There was a bus incident recently—
§ Lord BottomleyIt is a question, my Lords. Israelis were killed in the bus, including innocent children.
§ Lord BottomleyMy Lords, Yasser Arafat said that he is opposed—
§ Lord BottomleyOught we not to draw his attention to these activities, and will the Government condemn them?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, we deplore violence, from whichever quarter it comes.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, will the Government continue with their policy of trying to set up an international conference, and will they try to get it accepted by the United States? That could bring peace to the area.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, that is precisely what the declaration by the European Community tries to achieve.
§ Baroness PhillipsMy Lords, is the Minister—
§ Baroness PhillipsNo other noble Lord is on his feet, my Lords. I protest. If the Government like to take nearly 20 minutes on the first Question, what right do they have to cut down on the time available for the other Questions?