HL Deb 13 December 1989 vol 513 cc1295-7

2.45 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether conservation of endangered sea fish stocks can be carried out by methods which do not involve the wasteful return to the sea of quantities of dead fish which have been caught and killed in nets.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Sanderson of Bowden)

My Lords, I agree that discarding fish is wasteful. We are working with the fishing industry to develop technical conservation measures which minimise the number of undersized fish which are caught in nets and then have to be discarded.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer, and I recognise the difficulties. But cannot human ingenuity devise some improvements in the system so that boats do not have to dump fish of high quality, of species which are scarce and in demand? For example, could there not be better co-ordination among all concerned when a quota is approaching completion?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I recognise my noble friend's concern. However, in a mixed fishery of various species, as we have in the North Sea, the issues involved are complex. We need to be sure that whatever measures are introduced are effective and free from major disadvantages. A consultation paper was issued to the industry on 14th November and further discussions were held on 7th December. We hope shortly to be in a position to approach the European Commission with agreed proposals.

Lord Mason of Barnsley

My Lords, is the Minister aware that a major problem is the use of nylon monofilament gill nets? These large nets break, sink into the sea and become ghost nets for years, catching fish, diving seabirds and seals. If the Government were prepared to ban their use they could advance conservation and also curb pollution of the seas caused by dead and rotting fish in the nets.

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, we are dealing with two separate issues here. As the noble Lord will know only too well, we are dealing with the problem of monofilament nets as it relates to inshore fisheries and the difficulties caused particularly in the area south of Barra and north of Northern Ireland. The question we must address regarding white fish stocks is how to prevent discards, which are large. To that end we have several measures, including further consideration of square mesh as opposed to diamond mesh and a reduction in the number of meshes around the cod ends. These measures have been produced by my department in co-operation with the Scottish Fishermen's Federation to get round a difficult question and to try to bring about effective conservation.

Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove

My Lords, the whole House will agree that this is a difficult problem and that everyone is looking for a solution. I am pleased that the Minister has been in close touch with the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. Has he given thought to the federation's suggestion concerning the type of gear carried on fishing boats, which if illegally used can frustrate any progress on net size? Has he considered the federation's suggestion that there should be only one net per boat? Is he aware that industrial fishing vessels using small nets frequently collect immature fish? Is he sure that the by-catch of 10 per cent. is enforced rigidly, and is it not perhaps too high?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support of one of the measures in the consultation paper which was indeed suggested by the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. I am in almost daily touch with the federation on these matters. The prohibition of the carriage of both the 90 millimetre net and the 70 millimetre net on board the same ship is a matter we are addressing. I have to point out and warn the noble Lord that there are difficulties in this matter; in particular, difficulties with some of our European partners. It is absolutely no good going ahead with conservation measures that are not agreed with Brussels as well.

Regarding the other matters, the answer is: yes, there are problems with industrial fishing; but, as the noble Lord will recognise, there is also a considerable amount of financial gain involved not just to other countries but also to Britain. Therefore we must move carefully if we wish to curb that particular fishery.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that our partners, especially the Danes who are very competent at industrial fishing, are sticking to the by-limits of 10 per cent., or are they in fact sticking to the agreement made some years ago?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, in answering the noble Lord, I should say that we do our very best to ensure that enforcement is effective. As he will no doubt recall, the very famous case concerning a Danish fisherman who was not entirely in charge of his own vessel in Stornoway has been dealt with by my enforcement department.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, has not the matter become even more urgent in the past few days because of the alarming new proposals put forward by the EC Commission for severe reductions in the quotas, especially as regards haddock and cod?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, the short answer to that question is yes. Indeed, Her Majesty's Government, along with many other member states, have made quite clear to the Commission that the proposals which have come forward from the Fisheries Commissioner, and their timing, are wholly unacceptable at this stage.