§ 2.48 p.m.
§ Lord Strathcarron asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether, in order to ease traffic congestion, they will introduce legislation to allow traffic to turn left at a red light having first stopped to see if the road is clear.
§ Viscount DavidsonNo, my Lords. It would not be appropriate to introduce such a general dispensation. We are encouraging the installation of more sophisticated signal systems designed to optimise the capacity of signalled junctions. At appropriate junctions filter lanes can be introduced to aid left-turning traffic.
§ Lord StrathcarronMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in America the system works with great success? Americans turn right because they drive on the right, and obviously we would turn left. The only disadvantage might be at pedestrian crossings. In that situation in America there is a sign which says, "No turn on red light". Does the Minister agree that such a system would be a very simple and cheap way of easing traffic congestion, which concerns us all?
§ Viscount DavidsonNo, my Lords. I am afraid I cannot agree with my noble friend. There are fundamental differences between traffic signal junctions in the United States and the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom, traffic signals use more sophisticated and more flexible control techniques. They are rarely used in rural areas. They are frequently deployed to give assistance to pedestrians and they often have to cope with higher traffic volumes. In the United States, traffic signals generally rely on simple fixed-time controls. They are often used in rural areas, and roundabouts are rare. They frequently handle relatively low volumes of traffic and they can often be laid out with more space and better visibility. The short answer is that my noble friend's suggestion would not be suitable for the traffic conditions of the United Kingdom.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, much as we admire the experience and the motor cycling skill of the noble Viscount, is this not one case where he believes that everyone is as good and as cautious a driver as he is? If pedestrians on a traffic light controlled crossing see the traffic moving one way, they may believe that they can safely cross over where the lights are red. Is it not frequently the case that traffic in one lane turns left to the danger of pedestrians? This is what I encounter almost every day when I walk past traffic lights in my own area.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Underhill. Pedestrians seeing a gap in oncoming traffic might start to cross, not realising that a left turning vehicle from another approach was about to move. There is also a danger of increased vehicle accidents owing to misjudgments by left turners.
§ Lord SwinfenMy Lords, will the Government consider doing away with the red and amber signal before the green signal? This would prevent traffic moving off on that signal, which causes many accidents.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that is another question. I did not realise that many accidents had been caused in that way, but I shall look into it.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Viscount prepared to consider specific examples? One cannot take the United States as a whole because practices vary from state to state. If he cares to study what happens in San Francisco and in the city of New York, and in Hamburg and Dusseldorf in West Germany, he may discover that there is a great deal of sense in the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Strathcarron. In certain circumstances, though not all, we could adopt this proposal.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, for once I must agree with the noble Lord. There are differences in different states of the United States; and there are differences in Europe. But I still say that the system proposed for the United Kingdom would not be suitable. There are obviously some arguments for filtering to the left. However, to be effective there would need to be adequate lengths of road to store waiting traffic and possibly provision for acceleration lanes around the corner. But we are looking into that where it is possible.
§ Lord BorthwickMy Lords, is the Minister aware that that system of traffic control is used in Scotland today?
§ Viscount DavidsonI do not think that I am, my Lords. Perhaps my noble friend will let me know more about it.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware—he is not aware so I shall tell him—that I have recently driven almost 4,000 miles in the United States in a number of different states. I can confirm what the noble Lord, Lord Strathcarron, says. The suggestion is admirable. It works perfectly well in the United States and it would work perfectly well here.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I agree that it works perfectly well in the United States. I have driven in San Francisco and parts of other states. But I do not believe that it would work perfectly well here.
§ Lord Orr-EwingMy Lords, will my noble friend look at the present system in London whereby all red lights stop all traffic, even long after dark when there are no pedestrians around? Surely, traffic 1213 would flow much more easily if pedestrian buttons were available when someone wanted to cross safely. At the moment everything is stopped even when there are no pedestrians. This slows up traffic totally unnecessarily.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that again is another question, but I shall certainly look at it.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that, perhaps unusually, quite a number of noble Lords on this side of the House agree with him?
§ Viscount DavidsonWell, my Lords, I wonder whether I am right.