NHS: Medical Research (Hansard, 19 April 1989)

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, as the White Paper Working for Patients makes clear, the Government are firmly committed to maintaining the quality of medical research. We recognise the complexity and special needs of this area and will be discussing with interested parties how best to achieve this aim in the context of the proposals in the White Paper.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Can the Government assure the House that research interests will be properly represented on whatever policy and executive bodies may be established to administer the health service under the proposed reforms?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I shall certainly pass on that question to my right honourable friend. As the noble Lord knows, we have not yet given our responses to the House's Select Committee Report on Priorities in Medical Research, but we hope that they will be published in due course and will deal with such concerns.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, does the Minister not think it essential for the major and controversial proposals in the White Paper to be first tested by carefully evaluated pilot studies to see whether they work? Does he not further agree that the proposals of your Lordships' Select Committee on Priorities in Medical Research, among which was the proposal to set up a National Health Service research authority, would provide precisely the basis for undertaking such studies? Can the Minister say when Her Majesty's Government will give a full and considered reply to the Select Committee's report?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the White Paper sets out the Government's policy decisions, and further details are contained in the series of eight working papers which were published on 20th February. We shall be programming the introduction of changes carefully to ensure a smooth implementation. But pilot schemes could cause major uncertainty in the National Health Service as to the final pace and direction of change. The Government's response to the Select Committee's report will come in due time. My right honourable friend the Minister for Health hopes to write to the chairman of the Select Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Nelson of Stafford, before the end of spring.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the Minister aware that at the moment civil research and development is bedevilled by the concept of near market research and development? This is based on the theory that if the user of the research wants it he will pay for it and if he refuses to pay for it he does not want it. Can the House be assured that this concept will not be applied to medical research?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, that concept is certainly not applied to medical research. The Government give a great deal of money to medical research both through the Medical Research Council budget and through the department's direct funding of research.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, do the Government accept that what the BMA this week called, the serious threat to research and development in the White Paper", is one of the reasons why there is a massive rejection of the White Paper proposals among doctors and nurses? Does the Minister really think that it makes sense to threaten to rush through these fundamental proposals for reorganisation in the face of the tremendous and determined opposition of those who are expected to implement the recommendations?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the White Paper makes it quite clear that there is no threat to research and that the Government are fully committed to a strong medical research infrastructure through universities, 773 medical schools and research councils and through the NHS. It recognises that action will be necessary to ensure that the National Health Service review does not harm opportunities for medical research in the NHS.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, has the Minister seen the document published this week by the British Medical Association? It is the association's report for its conference. It says: The council is extremely concerned about the minimum references to medical education and research in the White Paper". It continues with several paragraphs of detailed comment. It would be nice to have as much detailed comment from the department as there is from the doctors' representatives.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Lord knows perfectly well that paragraph 4.30 of the White Paper refers to research. It makes the Government's commitment to research quite clear.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, do the Government accept that the majority of general practitioners are really concerned about the welfare of their patients? That is why they are asking for additional evidence to support the proposed changes.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I accept that there are concerns among general practitioners. No doubt the Government will take them into account. I am afraid that I did not quite catch the last part of the noble Lord's question. Perhaps he will repeat it.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, I said that the general practitioners are asking for evidence to support the proposed changes.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the Government are not proposing at the moment changes to research. The noble Lord is taking his question beyond that, to the White Paper itself.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, will the noble Lord say something about the Government's proposal to split the financing of research from the financing of teaching in the universities? Will this apply to medical research?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, at the moment medical research is funded by the department directly and by the Medical Research Council. As I understand it, that will continue.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the noble Lord's department as concerned with consensus as the department of the noble Earl, Lord Caithness?

§ Lord Henley
Of course, my Lords.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, does the noble Lord accept that it is becoming increasingly clear that what is urgently needed is more time? If the proposals are introduced without adequate time for discussion, 774 and therefore without co-operation from the various professions concerned, they are doomed to failure. Have the Government at long last got the message that more time is needed in order to research, consider and possibly obtain the co-operation of the professions with some of the proposals?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, we took a considerable amount of time before we came up with the White Paper proposals. We have allowed a considerable amount of time for their discussion.