European Air Traffic Control (Hansard, 18 October 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, the Government are satisfied that the authorities responsible for managing air traffic control services on the Continent are aware of the 1013 importance of maintaining good industrial relations. It would be neither appropriate nor effective for the Government to attempt to intervene directly in industrial relations problems abroad.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer which was not very helpful to me. Is he aware that it will be very little consolation to the hundreds of thousands of air travellers and holiday makers, some with young families, who last summer spent up to 24 hours cooped up in airports waiting for 'planes that did not arrive? Is he aware that as well as the dislocation through inadequate air control systems, industrial action by the civil flight controllers in some European countries last summer has been largely responsible for that dislocation? Therefore, will he take action to ask his right honourable friend the Minister to come together with other Ministers of transport in other European countries to see what action can be taken together to check this intolerable hijacking of holiday makers at the most sensitive times?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, my noble friend is quite right that it caused widespread disruption, particularly in the earlier part of the summer. That subject has been discussed among Ministers at the European Civil Aviation Conference, and it will be discussed this coming Thursday when my right honourable friend the Secretary of State will be going to Frankfurt for the next meeting. The matter of industrial relations problems is on the agenda. However, the countries involved which are so heavily dependent on the tourist trade for their livelihoods must also be aware of the difficulty and must do their best to sort out their own problems.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware—I am sure he is not, but I have to ask him—that when I went on my holidays to Europe this year I had to wait for 12 hours in Gatwick Airport on the way out and eight hours in the airport at the other end on the way back? That had nothing whatever to do with air controllers but was due to the sheer incompetence of B.Cal International which, as it is run at present, is a disgrace to Britain. Is it not appalling that British travellers should be subjected to that sort of delay by this British private company?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, obviously I was not aware of the noble Lord's particular difficulties over his holiday. However, it may well have been that air traffic control problems played a part in the beginning of the difficulties because very often this summer there have been air traffic control delays and that has caused the airlines concerned to get out of step. However, if it was nothing to do with that, I can only sympathise with the noble Lord; but it is not a matter on which I can act.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, given that holidays are a vital part of everyone's year, and that the intolerable delays which we read about (and saw if we used the airports) must have disrupted so many people and must have become a social problem, may I ask the following question? Has the 1014 Minister any information that the EC trade union machinery for discussion of social problems in Europe has been used by the Government? Has any thought been given to that? Although London is not as bad as many of the destinations in continental Europe, we heard from my noble friend earlier that we should not be too smug about it. Can he tell us when London will have the new machinery which will enable the controllers to relieve the tremendous pressure particularly in the summer?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, in answer to the noble Lord's first question, I am not aware whether or not the EC trade union organisations have become involved in this problem. As I said earlier, it must primarily be a matter settled by the individual countries. As regards this country, we are fortunate that the air traffic controllers have an excellent industrial relations record. There have not been any industrial relations problems this year. There are, nevertheless, problems of capacity; and that is a subject which the Civil Aviation Authority is tackling as best it can. It has only today announced a new £600 million programme of investment over the next 10 years which will, among other things, help to alleviate that problem.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that we need a whole new dimension of co-operation in Europe on matters of civil aviation? Is it not true that when those unfortunate happenings occur, airlines, airports and governments in the different countries blame each other and put forward ad hoc solutions for solving their own problems, whereas is it not right that we need this effort and co-operation in all the countries? Is the Minister aware that I believe that he is trying to do something about this on the matter of air traffic control? Can he assure us that that attitude will be taken from now on?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. We hold the presidency of Euro Control at the moment. I put forward some proposals at the last meeting to improve coordination and co-operation and other matters between the members of that organisation. At the next meeting in November I am looking forward to finding out what they have come forward with in the short, medium and long term. So far, I am encouraged by hearing that there could be possibilities of an improvement although not a dramatic improvement at the moment because that takes time and new equipment being installed. However, there could be some improvement next year.

§ Lord Mottistone
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are some benefits for this country from the air traffic control position because there is some evidence that people were so fed up with waiting at airports that they took their holidays in Britain instead, in particular on the Isle of Wight?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I took my holiday on the Isle of Wight but not because I wanted to go anywhere else in the first place. As I said earlier to my noble friend, it is not in those countries' best 1015 interests to have these problems when they are so reliant on the tourist trade.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is it not a grave reflection on the Isle of Wight that people only go there on holiday when they cannot go anywhere else?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I said to my noble friend that I went to the Isle of Wight on my holiday. I had always planned to go to the Isle of Wight and I did not plan to go anywhere else.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the Minister tell me where it is?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I think that one only needs to look at a map. It is a very well known place. I recommend it even to those from Scotland to visit it.