Sunday Trading: Policy (Hansard, 14 November 1988)

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, the Government are prepared to consider a practicable solution to the problem if and when sufficient support for it can be achieved.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that not particularly incisive Answer. Is he aware that the words of the Question echo the resolution adopted at the Conservative Party Conference? Is it not time that the Government, who have otherwise shown themselves to be courageously reforming, tackled the mess?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, the subject was discussed at the Conservative Party Conference. The Government favour complete deregulation, but memories of April 1986 caution prudence. That situation leads us to seek the widest degree of support before proposing legislation.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that organisations which opposed the Shops Bill two years ago are now in favour of a change because of the ridiculous anomalies which exist in England and Wales? Some of them were referred to by my noble friend Lord Ferrers a few days ago in response to a Question which I had tabled. Has my noble friend any further examples for our delectation today to lighten the seriousness of Question Time?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, it is not for me to interpret the law but it seems to me some people may be disorientated in their travels in this world. For example, on Sundays here one can sell a guide book to a passenger on a passenger vessel but not to a member of the crew if there are no passengers on board. When one considers that one can sell a Bible in certain places, including designated railway and bus stations, but not in cathedral book shops, then the difficulty appears to affect travel to the next world as well.

§ Viscount Ingleby
My Lords, are the Government giving careful consideration to the "rest" proposals put forward by the Keep Sunday Special campaign? Will they involve that organisation, the National 832 Chamber of Trade, the unions concerned and, above all, the Churches, in any subsequent negotiations?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, we are grateful for the attempt to produce the proposals and have studied them most carefully. However, we regard them as extremely complex and likely to lead to further anomalies and difficulties.

§ Lord Ashbourne
My Lords, in order to simplify the problems of Sunday trading, are the Government considering exempting certain types of shops, as is done in West Germany, the Netherlands and Italy, rather than exempting goods, as is done in this country?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, we do not believe that it is suitable to proceed in a piecemeal fashion, which we may be encouraged to do if we go down the road of partial deregulation. At this stage we are anxious to canvass all opinions and to discover the measure of consensus and any practical solutions which may come forward.

§ Lord Monson
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Keep Sunday Special campaign is proposing imprisonment for those who break the Sunday trading laws, and that if its proposals are adopted it will be the first time in over 400 years that people will be imprisoned for selling Bibles on a Sunday?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in considering the matter will my noble friend look at the example of Scotland, where they get on perfectly sensibly and effectively with total deregulation?

The Earl of Dundee
My Lords, I am always happy to consider the examples of Scotland, and where I always live happily. I agree with the sentiments expressed by my noble friend.