§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will take action to increase the number of veterinary students.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the current pattern of provision reflects the outcome of the Government's last manpower review in 1985, conducted in conjuction with the veterinary profession. We shall, again in consultation, be considering whether a further review is needed and, if so, when.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for that Answer and for the assurance that he has given. Perhaps I may point out that the number of vacancies advertised in the BVA journal is unprecedented. There is a desperate shortage of vets in the North, the West, and particularly in Scotland, and there is no possibility of sufficient vets being trained in our universities to fill these vacancies. Is the Minister aware that if we do not investigate the situation earnestly it will become worse?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the recommendation that the annual intake of students by veterinary schools between 1986 and 1990 should be reduced from 335 to 302 was recognised by the review body to be fine-tuning of the highest order. Both the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons and the British Veterinary Association are concerned that there may be an increasing shortfall against demand.
§ Baroness SharplesMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that vets who are now being trained will have insufficient specialist qualifications when the market is opened to vets from all countries in 1992?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, no; I believe that the opposite will occur. The working party is considering the provision of veterinary education in the six veterinary schools and the scope for rationalisation.
§ Lord Stodart of LeastonMy Lords, I was chairman of the review body in 1983–84. Is my noble friend aware that the review body found great difficulty in trying to forecast the number of veterinary surgeons required in the early 1990s? Is he also aware that despite that difficulty, the review body recommended a reduction in the intake of students and that one of the factors considered was the continuing rise in the percentage of passes among the original entry of students?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am aware that my noble friend Lord Stodart of Leaston chaired the last review body and I am grateful for his comments. The Departments of Agriculture and of Education and Science, in consultation with the University Grants Committee and representatives of the veterinary profession, will discuss the need for a further review and, if one is required, when it should take place.
The Earl of HalsburyMy Lords, is there any danger that the faster we turn out veterinary surgeons the faster they will be absorbed on to popular television programmes?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that is another Question.
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, will the noble Viscount clarify the educational aspects of the issue? Is it right that the quality of students entering degree courses is of the highest level and that there is an enormous demand for young people to take the courses? Given that there is no unemployment among veterinary graduates, why do not the Government respond by providing the appropriate number of places?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the average student-staff ratio is approximately five to two. It is comparable with those in clinical medicine and clinical dentistry. Departmental university expenditure per full-time equivalent student is in the order of £8,500 per year, which is slightly higher than for clinical medicine and dentistry.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that, in addition to the points I have made, the BVA is concerned that countries such as Italy, Spain and Belgium are now producing more vets than is the United Kingdom? The time will come when veterinary surgeons from Europe and the EC will dominate our agricultural areas. It is vital that we keep pace in producing vets from our universities to match the possible intake which has already been mentioned and which could swamp us.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I take note of what the noble Lord said. Subject to satisfying certain requirements, including registration with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, veterinary surgeons 622 from other countries may practise in the United Kingdom and I have not received any complaints on that score.
Lord MorrisMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that I have a nephew whose academic qualifications were not high enough for him to become a vet and he has now qualified as a doctor of medicine?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I was not aware of that but I am now.
§ Lord ReaMy Lords, can the Minister throw any light on the rather persistent feeling among veterinary surgeons that there are plans for the closure of one or more of the six veterinary colleges?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, not at present.