HL Deb 09 November 1988 vol 501 cc622-3

3 p.m.

Lord Peston asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether there are any set proportions or quotas of particular grades for nursing auxiliaries which are being imposed on the service.

Lord Hesketh

No, my Lords.

Lord Peston

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer to that Question, and bearing in mind how admirable and devoted these nursing auxiliaries are, perhaps I may ask whether Her Majesty's Government are aware that they frequently work unsupervised and do work for which they are neither trained nor paid. Are the Government aware of that problem and are they thinking of doing anything about it?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, there is no evidence to suggest that nursing auxiliaries are being used inappropriately or asked to undertake tasks for which they are not properly trained.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, will the Minister say to what extent the current shortage of nurses could be met by a bigger influx of auxiliaries? Does he also accept that inadequate pay of auxiliary nurses is one factor which mitigates against the enrolment of nurses at present?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, as I am sure all Members of your Lordships' House are aware, there has just been a record pay deal for the nurses. As regards auxiliary nurses, their pay has increased by between 7.6 per cent. and 8.9 per cent. in the most recent settlement. That is above the average for both the public and the private sector.

Lord Peston

My Lords, I hate to return to the theme, but bearing in mind that I am extremely disappointed at the noble Lord's statement as regards lack of evidence will he accept from me that the situation which I have described is certainly the case in mental hospitals, for example? Will he accept from me and others evidence of precisely the kind I have mentioned; namely, that these excellent people are having to work unsupervised wards and do work for which they are not trained?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I do not believe that I can go beyond my second answer to the noble Lord, Lord Peston, which was that we believe there is no evidence to suggest that nursing auxiliaries are being used inappropriately.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I was once a nursing auxiliary in a casualty department and I did jobs that were way beyond the training which I had received? I am sure that still persists today.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I was unaware of that position of the noble Countess, but I assure your Lordships that I would have had the utmost confidence had I been in her hands.