Party Conference Security: Costs (Hansard, 1 November 1988)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has concluded that he would not be justified in departing from the normal police funding arrangements by giving additional funding to meet the increased costs of policing party conferences. The Government contribute to all police expenditure, both directly through police grant, which is now at 51 per cent., and indirectly through block grant.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, even taking into account the 51 per cent. plus the rate support grant which, in the case of the conference this year would come to roughly £90,000, that leaves £600,000 for the authority to find. Is the Minister aware that that £600,000 would represent somewhere in, the region of 30 constables, full-time, 45 police vehicles, etc.? Will the Minister be prepared to meet a delegation from the two authorities that hold political conferences so that they can discuss this fully?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I became a little lost with the noble Lord's mathematics. I was not quite certain to which party conference he was referring. There were two; one was at Blackpool and one at Brighton

Noble Lords
Six!

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, there were one or two others as well. On the assumption that the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Blackburn, was referring to Blackpool, I must tell him that the additional policing costs incurred by the Lancashire police have been estimated at about £61,000. The Government will contribute in all 74.8 per cent. of that.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, may I ask that the Minister will ask his right honourable friend or himself to meet a delegation from Lancashire.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I shall ask myself that question, if I may. The answer to the noble Lord is that of course I shall be delighted to meet him and the delegation if he would like to come.

Lord Oram
My Lords, is it not important to distinguish between a conference of the party that is in government and a conference of a party from the Opposition? In Brighton, for instance, where I am a ratepayer, it is estimated that the Conservative Party conference cost in extra policing £1.4 million, whereas in the previous year the Labour Party conference was only £23,000. Is not that an enormous difference and does it not make out the case for paying some of the cost of conferences when a government party is in the chair?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, what determines the cost is the assessed level of threat. Obviously the chances are that the assessment of threat to the party which happens to be occupying the office of government is likely to be greater. I do not think it would be correct to depart from the normal principle which we have, which is that central government pay 51 per cent., block grant is based on the local authority's needs and the ratepayers pay a contribution. The structure is designed to cover all needs, whether they are local or national. Almost every force can claim that some of its requirements have a national characteristic as well as a local one.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, bearing in mind what happened at Brighton in a previous year, was it the party or was it the police who decided what constituted adequate security, irrespective of cost?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, it is the responsibility of the police to determine the level of security and take appropriate actions to ensure that as far as possible that security is maintained.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, does the noble Earl feel that his right honourable friend has acted upon principles either of logic or justice in the decision he seems to have made? is it not right that, whereas there are many examples of national impingement upon conferences, we are dealing with the defence of democracy in regard to party conferences, of whatever colour they may be? Is it not right, therefore, that if we are defending a national tradition, which is the whole basis of our constitution and rights, the nation should pay and not ratepayers, however small the percentage?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord is of course entirely correct, as he usually is, in saying that it is the defence of democracy which is at stake. He is absolutely right about that. My right honourable friend's decision can be supported both on the grounds of logic and of justice. All forces have to meet requirements of a national as well as of a local significance. Frequently when they have calls upon them of a national nature they ask for government funding, but the whole principle upon which police funding is considered is that it operates on a national and on a local basis. It is right that in those circumstances ratepayers should have a part to play in the expenses incurred. There have been only a few occasions when special payments have been made. Those payments were made when quite exceptional circumstances occurred which were generally of an unforeseen nature.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that in both these large conferences the local people gained considerable benefit? Hotels, other establishments and people in the locality gained. Does he further agree that the costs that are put forward are probably not quite true, because although extra police may have to be brought in from elsewhere, that represents to a great extent redeployment for a short period of existing forces?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Viscount for bringing out that point. I was also delighted to hear that he thought there were only two conferences this year. He is quite right that conferences bring a certain amount of trade and other benefits to a locality. That is one of the offsetting advantages of having a conference.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, is the Minister aware that that was all right in the days when county boroughs had their own police forces? However, these days the charge is spread throughout the full county. The benefits of having a conference in Blackpool certainly do not help the people in Blackburn, the area of Lancashire in which I live.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I can only say that that is bad luck.