Persian Gulf: Naval Co-operation (Hansard, 26 January 1988)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, yes. Satisfactory arrangements have been developed both locally and between capitals for co-operation. Although the Royal Navy's Armilla patrol remains a wholly national operation, the United Kingdom remains committed to close and effective co-ordination with other friendly navies operating in the Gulf.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Can he say whether the Government are satisfied with the level of intelligence co-operation in the Gulf between the various naval forces? Are they aware of the need to try to prevent the attacks made on military and civil shipping by rendering inoperable the bases from where they are made?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, we never discuss in detail our intelligence arrangements. However, the noble Lord may be assured that the more general answer that I have already given applies to the particular.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether in his view it is really out of the question for the Security Council to constitute some force under the auspices of the United Nations for patrolling the Gulf, which of course it is fully entitled to do under the United Nations Charter? If so, will they consider urging Sir Brian Urquhart to rejoin the United Nations for a period in order to preside over such an admirable operation?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, we have no difficulty in principle with the idea of a United Nations force. Indeed, we contribute to United Nations forces of other kinds around the world. However, we see very considerable practical difficulties in the way of a United Nations naval force of the kind that I think the noble Lord has in mind. There has never been such a force, as I am sure the noble Lord will be aware, and the difficulties of forming and operating one are formidable.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, is this not, then, the best opportunity to commence?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, there are powerful arguments against commencing something which is almost certain to prove impossible.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that according to reports in the newspapers there appears to have been a lapse in the threat from mining and that, to some extent. the threat has now switched to fast patrol boats armed with surface-to-surface missiles? If this is true, are we co-ordinating activities between the various allied nations in that part of the world against this threat as well as we did against the mining threat?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, my noble friend is certainly right when he says that the threat faced by our forces and indeed by the other forces in the region is a continually changing one. My noble friend may be assured that we keep the changing threat under careful and continuous review and adjust our arrangements accordingly.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, is not the position in the Gulf that every single warship there is subject only to the commands of its own government and that its duty is to provide for its own security? In the circumstances, are we not astonishingly lucky, and have we not much on which to congratulate the command there, that ships have not sunk each other yet?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, pointed out, there is considerable interchange of information between the commanders on the spot to avoid just the eventuality that the noble Lord anticipates.

§ Lord Irving of Dartford
My Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that a decision has been taken to reduce the number of Royal Navy minesweepers in the Gulf and to co-ordinate the operations of those that remain with the Belgian and Dutch ships? Following the call from the commander of the French naval forces in the Gulf for his ships to protect merchant ships of all flags, can Her Majesty's Government say whether any plans to change the rules of engagement have been issued to our forces in the area?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, we do not discuss in detail the rules of engagement issued to our forces on the spot. But, so 497 far as I am aware, there has been no recent change in those rules of engagement. As for the earlier part of the noble Lord's question, the answer is, no.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree, however, that in the Gulf, as in Lebanon, the Americans take unilateral action and European governments are dragged in one by one without any apparent co-ordination of policy? Would he say whether the Government are satisfied with this? Have they raised questions of policy co-ordination early on, and did they do so in the Western European Union?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we have not been dragged in, as the noble Lord says, by anyone. We are there because we chose to be there to protect British shipping and other qualified vessels.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, further to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing—I understand that I cannot expect a detailed answer—might some consideration be given to rendering inoperable the bases from which these very venomous attacks are made on naval and civil shipping, causing so much damage?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, we are there to try to reduce the temperature, not to increase it. I am not sure that the course that the noble Lord proposes would necessarily contribute to that end. We are anxious to ensure, so far as we can, that British shipping and the other vessels that are qualified for the protection of British forces in the area get as much protection as we can provide. But we are not concerned to raise the temperature of the situation in the way that the noble Lord's action might.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, as the Soviet Union has been urging a United Nations force for the last six months, can the noble Lord state what are the reasons which make him think that it might be impossible to get one?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is, if I may say so, a very comprehensive question. The answer would be a somewhat lengthy one, perhaps unduly trespassing upon your Lordships' Question Time. But for example, co-ordinating rules of engagement would be a very difficult matter.