§ 3.2 p.m.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the event of war, NATO navies, including the Royal Navy, would fight under the New Maritime Strategy announced by the US Chief of Naval Operations in January last year, and whether in peacetime they will exercise under the present US rules of engagement.
§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, in the event of war, the Royal Navy and the navies of other NATO countries which had been assigned to NATO command would operate in accordance with the concepts developed by the NATO military authorities and agreed by alliance nations. In peacetime, the Royal Navy and the navies of other NATO countries operate and exercise under their own national rules of engagement or, if they have 633 been assigned to NATO command for a particular exercise, under NATO rules of engagement.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, the point is, do the NATO rules of engagement coincide with the New Maritime Strategy? Since this says that during a conventional war Soviet ballistic missile-firing submarines might be sunk in order to change the nuclear balance and to persuade the Russians to sue for peace, is it not a clear example of a pre-emptive strategic first strike? Has it been discussed at political level in NATO?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the Alliance naturally reviews and updates its rules of engagement from time to time but it is not our practice to give details or to discuss operational matters of this sort.
§ Lord Hill-NortonMy Lords, does the Minister agree that the Question quite misunderstands the arrangements of the Royal Navy and other navies declared to NATO? The United States Chief of Naval Operations, I am sure the noble Lord would agree, has nothing whatever to do with NATO arrangements. Is he aware that the two supreme commanders concerned in NATO are SACLANT and CINCHAN? They obtain their instructions from the NATO Military Committee. There is no conceivable possibility of strategy being developed by any authority other than the NATO Military Committee, and endorsed by the NATO Council. Finally, does he agree that even if the Question were well advised, it would be quite wrong to give the information requested?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the noble and gallant Lord is quite right. The United States maritime strategy is a matter for the United States.
§ Lord Irving of DartfordMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in the short time this Question has been on the Order Paper I have consulted several experts, including the editor of one of our defence journals, and no one has ever heard of the New Maritime Strategy? Will he tell us the essential difference between the New Maritime Strategy and the old maritime strategy, or will he need a longer period of notice?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, that question is one which should be addressed to the noble Lord, Lord Kennet.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he is quite mistaken in saying that the Government never discuss the rules of engagement? On 5th March this year his noble friend Lord Trefgarne sent to me a very helpful statement of the Government's policy on rules of engagement in the Gulf. Is he also aware that the previous supplementary question was based on ignorance and that I am prepared to send full details of the New Maritime Strategy to any noble Lord who is interested?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I can go no further than my original Answer. It is not our practice to give details or make known discussions on operational matters of the sort to which the noble Lord refers.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, is the Minister aware that at any rate some of us think this Question is absolutely barmy? I cannot believe that any of your Lordships would be expected to know what the strategy of our nation would be in the event of war. Who is going to tell what to whom—certainly not to the enemy. The question could not be more daft.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, will have heard those remarks.