§ 3.1 p.m.
§ Lord FerrierMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will persuade British Telecom and the Post Office to accept telemessages from the general public at public post offices for delivery by post the following day.
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, this is entirely a commercial matter for the boards of British Telecom and the Post Office. I understand that British Telecom has considered the matter carefully and has reached the view that such an arrangement would not be commercially viable.
§ Lord FerrierMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Do the Government appreciate that, as things stand, the potential use of this valuable service is denied to people who do not possess a telephone number?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I think that in the past I have told my noble friend that this service is available from coin boxes to people who do not possess a telephone. Admittedly, it may not be very convenient but it is certainly a good deal more convenient now that call boxes have been introduced which take higher denomination coins.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we are dealing here with a simple humanitarian problem, in that, since there is no telegram service, people without a telephone have great difficulty in communicating urgently with others who have no telephone? Is the noble Lord further aware that, since British Telecom is now a privatised monopoly, the Government still have means and ways of persuading British Telecom to give a service which it should be giving on humanitarian grounds, in spite of the fact that it may result in a loss of profits?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I would say that the BT service is a good service. Indeed, if the noble Lord feels otherwise he has every opportunity to complain to BT and, if he is not satisfied, to go to the Director-General of Oftel, which was specifically set up to safeguard the customer.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, did not the Minister say a moment ago that the decisions were purely commercial ones?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, of course they are commercial ones, taken by privatised companies run by a board of directors, not by the Government.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, is it not rather curious that the Minister should be satisfied with British Telecom, when the complaints about the service provided by British Telecom have increased by 52 per cent. since telecommunications were privatised?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, the Director-General of Oftel has stated publicly that on the whole he is satisfied with the service that is being given by British Telecom.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, while it is perfectly true, as the Minister says, that British Telecom is privatised, albeit it is privatised monopoly, the Post Office is not. If this service could be arranged through the Post Office, over which the Government still have some degree of control, it would give a very great deal of assistance.
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, the chairmen of both organisations, the Post Office and BT, do from time to time hold discussions and no doubt this has been discussed between them.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that for over 100 years the government of this country and the Post Office assumed the duty of ensuring that people could send life and death messages from various parts of the country? Are we to assume, now that British Telecom is privatised, that the Government and British Telecom have abandoned that duty?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, British Telecom's duty was set out in the Act when it was privatised, and I believe that it is operating its business on those lines.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, will the noble Lord answer the question? Do the Government not accept any duty now to ensure that the citizens of this country can send life and death messages?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, the Government were satisfied with the legislation at that time.
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, therefore will the noble Lord confirm what he seems to have said, that there is literally no public interest whatever in this matter? It is an astonishing position if that is what the noble Lord is saying.
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I am not saying that there is no government interest in this matter—
§ Lord BeaverbrookI am not saying that the Government have no interest in seeing that messages can or cannot be sent. But I have to say that the Government are satisfied that life and death messages can be sent.
§ Lord Harris of GreenwichMy Lords, will the noble Lord ensure that the exchanges in the House today are drawn to the attention of the chairmen of British Telecom and the Post Office?
§ Lord BeaverbrookYes, my Lords. Of course I am prepared to undertake to do that.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, may I also press the noble Lord to draw to the attention of the Post 1388 Office—which as I understand it, and as the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, has said, is still under government control—that if a commercial transaction is to take place, the Government have the power to make sure that the Post Office pays the commercial rate that British Telecom requires?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, as regards the Post Office, the role of the Government is confined to broad issues of general policy and to matters of overall financial control. The day-to-day commercial operations of the Post Office are the responsibility of the Post Office Board.
§ Lord Lloyd of KilgerranMy Lords, will the noble Lord the Minister be good enough to bring to the attention of Professor Carsberg, who is doing such an excellent job as regulatory head of Oftel, the proceedings that have taken place here this afternoon and the complaints that have been made?
§ Lord BeaverbrookYes, of course, my Lords.
§ Lord FerrierMy Lords, in view of what my noble friend said about British Telcom, is he aware that the minimum cost of a telemessage is £4 for 50 words? I have heard from British Telecom that this does not make it viable. Is my noble friend further aware that the personnel who man the minor post offices would welcome this income to help them make ends meet?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, the overall cost of having a telephone provided by BT has fallen on the RPI.3 basis. As regards the cost of sending a telemessage, I do not have any figures. It may well be that small post offices, sub-post offices, would welcome some of the income alluded to by my noble friend. However, the equipment required to send those messages could well make them entirely uneconomic.
§ Lord StallardMy Lords, can the noble Lord issue a list of those places where the overall cost has fallen?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I believe that the overall cost of telephone calls in this country has declined by about 14 per cent. over the last three years.