AIDS: Cost of Treatment (Hansard, 13 January 1987)

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Baroness Trumpington)
My Lords, the Government are in the process of commissioning research regarding the overall cost to the NHS of a person suffering from AIDS. The costs of hospital treatment have been estimated to be in the range of £10,000 to £20,000, depending on the duration of in-patient stay.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for her reply. In their estimates for the future, do the Government visualise that the treatment of most of these patients will be carried out in a special ward of the kind about to be opened at the Middlesex Hospital?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the way in which care is provided by health authorities for AIDS patients is a matter for them to decide in the context of their planning arrangements. The majority of hospital admissions of AIDS patients result from opportunistic infections which can be dealt with by the appropriate medical specialty. There is also evidence that for much of his illness an AIDS patient can be treated in a community setting.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness has seen the recent report of the Health Visitors' Association with its very alarming figure of 56 cities and towns in which there are no health advisers at clinics to assist those who may be sufferers from AIDS and who are seeking advice? Is this not a vital aspect of the financial responsibility which unhappily falls upon the Government.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, AIDS patients at the moment are not spread widely around the country: they are somewhat pocketed. It will be a matter for health authorities to decide when they should appoint such people, if they wish to appoint them.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, will there be funds available for health authorities to appoint these important advisers and counsellors?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, we have apportioned extra money for 476 AIDS. It will be up to the health authorities to use their funds in the way in which they think best.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, are the Government aware—I am sure they are—of the work being done by Mr. Malcolm Rees on a sample of 70 patients at various London hospitals, which I understand is likely to work out at a cost in the region of £15,000 to £20,000? Are they also aware of the forecast made by Professor Maynard of the York University Health Economics Centre, which also came to £20,000? If these figures are confirmed in due course, will the Government take them fully into account in providing funds for this terrible disease?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the question of costing is in many ways still in its early stages. From the point of view of expenditure, we expect health authorities to spend some £10 million on tackling the problem of AIDS in the current financial year. In 1987–88 this should increase to £17 million. A further £7.5 million will be spent in this financial year rising to £16.5 million next year on publicity for the public health laboratory service and research funded directly by the Department of Health. Also, the Medical Research Council is allocating £1.5 million to 15 special projects concerning AIDS.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, will the noble Baroness not agree—I am sure she will—that the Government should be complimented on their endeavours with their TV programme? Will it not be possible now for the department to encourage all the various health authorities and, indeed, local government, to take similar action in the local press and in local publications to follow the lead given by the Government?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, will no doubt be aware that there is a leaflet drop to 23 million households today and following through this week.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, am I right in thinking that the financial aspects of this unfortunate matter are being studied by the committee presided over by the noble Viscount the Leader of the House? Can the noble Baroness confirm that the noble Viscount's committee will be reporting in due course? May we have some indication as to when we can expect such a report?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I can confirm that my noble friend the Leader of the House is chairing a committee. I do not think it would be for me to comment on his reporting. I might add that the Secretary of State at his press conference on 8th January announced that he proposes to convene a conference on the provision of care for AIDS sufferers outside hospital which will bring together a great many bodies and will be able to identify more clearly what our priorities and our response should be in the years ahead.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Baroness convey to her noble friend the Leader of the House that we should be interested to know when his committee is likely to report?

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, will she have a word in his ear?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I have never known the box so near. My noble friend will, I believe, report from time to time.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, as these cases clearly cannot be treated until they have been diagnosed, can the noble Baroness tell us something about the present cost of diagnosis, including screening? More specifically, can she tell the House the precise cost of an individual blood test for the presence of the virus, including the laboratory costs?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, with regard to screening, we are carefully considering the many complex and difficult issues that arise both domestically and internationally with regard to the screening of entrants to the UK, or indeed of any group—for instance, of entrants to particular employments like the armed forces. These are far from straightforward. The implications are profound both for individuals identified as carriers and for the general public. Those who have probed the issues will understand.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, is it correct that the cost of one blood test for AIDS is about £10 and likely to come down?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I am unable to gaze into a crystal ball.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister whether Her Majesty's Government have been in touch with the National Association of Counselling which has offices and personnel throughout the country and which could very much assist in this matter?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we welcome help from all voluntary and other bodies and we are in touch with them as much as possible. If they let us know of their efforts, we will gladly be in touch with them.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, have the Government taken into account the cost of additional staff required in hospitals to treat these cases, and the cost of preparing and equipping the hospitals to ensure complete safety against infection from blood and cut accidents?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, with reference to the cost of extra doctors and nurses, over 80 per cent. of AIDS patients are being cared for in three Thames health regions. In the light of this, the Government are considering the level of resources which they should receive in 1987–88. It is for health authorities to decide how any sums should be spent and what training staff should receive. That includes looking out for the dangers to which my noble friend referred.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, will the noble Baroness look again at the question put by my noble friend Lord Kilmarnock and at the figures that he gave, 478 which were considerably above those that she stated for the cost of treatment? Will she assure the House that if my noble friend's figures are confirmed, more money will be available for the treatment of this possibly tragic epidemic?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the Government are constantly looking into the cost. They are also making available a great deal of money in the immediate present and looking into future needs to see what costings they will have to make.